Birthday Rant!

Well, it’s my birthday today so I thought I’d treat myself to one of my favourite rants. Enjoy…:)

You see, I had a visit from some Jehovah’s Witnesses on Saturday. They were very polite and were happy to stop and have a chat with me. Obviously, these particular guys hadn’t been around before and I think the woman was angling for a cuppa because she kept trying to see into the kitchen. She was out of luck though, because I’ve been experimenting. I think you get a better argument if you keep them at the door. Although, if you invite them in for a cuppa and leave the bickies in plain view but don’t offer them any, that seems to work just as well.

Anyway, we began with the usual menials, “how are you”, “lovely day”, that sort of thing, but quickly moved on to what mattered most. My spiritual wellbeing. Now bear in mind that it was lunchtime, I’d done night shift the night before and hadn’t slept yet. I told them this but they continued on undeterred, so I did too.

First came a little introduction to their tracts. Was I familiar with them? I explained that I was probably more familiar with them than they could imagine, being the type that likes to rip this stuff apart on my blog. He frowned and she told me that that wasn’t very nice. I told her not to cast aspersions where they weren’t warranted because I’d wager that she’d never read my blog and therefore probably wouldn’t know. So were they familiar with my blog? Well no, so we got that cleared up in short order. I explained that I was very polite about it, I invited comment and that they were welcome to do so too if they were so inclined, and left it at that.

So then we got onto how fantastic god is. Now this is where it got interesting. I agreed that he is indeed fantastic because god is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. Says so in that book you’ve got there. They agreed so I went on with the bit about that if this is how he wanted the world to be, and obviously he did, then he’s probably not really all that fantastic, when you think about it. When I mentioned that the people holding the reigns of power seem to all be good god fearin’ folk after all, they told me that they are the wrong sort of christians and are victims of false religion. Really? I told them the Mormons were here last week and told me that the Jehovah’s were wrong, so one of them has to prove it now. Would they like to be first? Apparently not…

That was when they started on the tried and true idea that the reason things are so bad is because there’s a battle going on. I agreed that Iraq is a prime example of what christians are capable of when they put their minds to it, but they politely corrected me. Apparently the battle is between god and the devil. I told them that this was news to me and asked if they were telling me that the current state of affairs was all the devil’s fault. They said “Yes”, I said “Oh dear…”

At least now we’re getting to the crux of the matter though, or so I thought. So I asked them to point out a story in the bible that mentions Satan or (anyone else for that matter) being cast from heaven. They told me it was all right there in Job. I said “Oh dear…” (again) and explained about the Archangel Satan, “The Accuser”, what his job is and that nowhere in Job is he cast out of heaven. Nowhere. If they were willing to look at my blog I’d have just pointed them to El Diablo. As it was, I had to explain that Satan really hasn’t been around that long and that the other old testament stories aren’t about the devil or Satan either and put them all into their proper historical perspective so they could understand.

After a rather frantic but fruitless search through the “good book”, accentuated by many surprised looks and red faces, we turned straight to the subject of living forever. I said “perish the thought”, they were aghast. They couldn’t get it through their heads that I’d rather have no life at all than spend eternity with a megalomaniac. Then I had to explain again that hell really isn’t an option because there isn’t really a devil in the bible. He told me it was all in Revelation. At this point I must have lost my presence of mind because I said that Revelation wasn’t written until 600ad. I don’t know where that figure came from, but he managed to win a point from me when he said it was actually 96ad. Conceded…

So just to be cheeky and to see if I could get away with it, I asked if we knew who wrote it. It worked, he said it was John the Apostle. So I took some time here to explain that John the Apostle was a contemporary of Jesus. They agreed. I then explained that 96ad is 96 years after Jesus is supposed to have died. I was greeted by blank looks, so I felt obliged to explain that even if John lived to be 100 (very unlikely) and died the year he wrote the book, he was only 4 when Jesus died. In that case, please explain how he could possibly have been an apostle if he was only 1 when Jesus began his ministry.

That was when they realised that that line of argument wasn’t going to get them very far, so they turned to science. Here, they really were scraping the bottom of the barrel. The first thing they mentioned was cryogenics (yes, we’re still on the “living forever” thing). I said that there’s nothing to worry about there, we don’t actually have the technology to make that possible, even though John and Walt had hopes. But if we thaw those lads out now, all we’ll be left with is a mess. That didn’t stop them though, so I explained about ice crystals and the need for some sort of anti-freeze, otherwise cells get destroyed during the freezing. I also explained that at the moment and at anytime in the foreseeable future, there’s probably very little chance of people being able to live forever by being frozen. They told me there are other ways to live forever. Oooh mysterious… I told them I’d be surprised if they could prove it.

Ah, but that’s what god wants, or so I’m told and the proof comes from within. You can’t see it and you can’t measure it. Well of course not. Duh! Then they explained about god’s plan. You know, paradise on earth and all that. I explained that the pictures in their tracts (yes, she actually pointed to one as part of her explanation) really are very simplistic, extremely misleading and probably wouldn’t find a place in a decent illustrated children’s bible, unless it was one of theirs, of course. Then there were the inevitable cries of; “but the bible is the truth” to which they got a standard “what, the one you guys wrote in 1950, or the original?” Now I’m afraid to say that that didn’t go over very well. Seems I’m allowed to know my bible history, but Charles Taze Russell and the history of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is taboo to the uninitiated…:)

So it was that at this point I took the opportunity to politely explain that I really did need some sleep and so they took their leave. They were kind enough to leave me a copy of “Watchtower” and “Awake!”, so it wasn’t all bad at the end. I’ve got material enough now to last me quite a while…:)

11:26 AM - 5/2/2007 - post comment

Happy Birthday, Plonka.

Can't think of a better present you'd rather have. ;o)

But it really was as easy as hunting cows with a shotgun, wasn't it.

snowy - 12:22 PM - 5/2/2007

Thanks Snowy...:)

You're right on both counts. I enjoyed myself immensley, but that was probably due to the fact that it was real fish in a barrel stuff...:)

plonka - 12:51 PM - 5/2/2007

Witnesses

Happy birthday, Ted.

You know your Witnesses well. I wish that I could have been a fly on the wall.

It's a good thing they weren't around on Sunday - imagine traipsing round on a 35C day.

dikkii - 3:28 PM - 5/2/2007

Ta..

Thanks Dikkii...:)

You are welcome to come and listen anytime, but they don't come as often as they once did. I think they're beggining to see me as a lost cause, or something.

Strange thing is that I saw a few of them out there when I went for a ride. Even overtook some Mormons. Maybe the 35+ days are the best days for tea and bickies. I've always suspected there was a hidden agenda, hence my experiment...:)

Edited by plonka on 5/2/2007 at 1:41 AM

plonka - 3:43 PM - 5/2/2007

Ted's birthday but we get the presents

After a day of catching God's Prime Minister spinning away on the environment, it was a real pleasure to see this.

Haven't seen them around here lately and last time Liz headed them off at the pass before I could get down the ladder. Of course I am not in the same ball park from the History stand point, but I do carry a certain enthusiasm. I should re-read your series and try to retain the dates.

Have a bloody Happy one, Ted.

petermcc - 6:22 PM - 5/2/2007

Thanks Pete.

Appreciate the vote of confidence....:)

It's always fun to chat with the Witnesses. At least they don't bother to intriduce new characters like the Mormons do, which makes it a little easier. I've got The Book of Mormon there, but it's going to have to wait until after the Koran.

And don't worry, other than the fact that my new Campagnolo Mirage groupset didn't arrive today as expected, I'm having a ball...:)

Edited by plonka on 5/2/2007 at 1:40 AM

plonka - 6:49 PM - 5/2/2007

Untitled Comment

You're a bad, bad boy ted. Those poor JWs on a mission from gawd to indoctrinate you (I mean spread god's word), and you decide to think rationally instead of being all emotional about not living forever. How can the worldwide recruitment of religious borg continue while you are holding out on the side of reason? Shame on you. ;)

And happy birthday!

beepbeepitsme - 8:08 AM - 6/2/2007

Guilty...

Thanks Beep...:)

You're right I know, it's shameful. I should at least have offered them a cuppa and a bickie...:)

plonka - 8:36 AM - 6/2/2007

Yes to the cuppa

But I'd hold on the biscuits.

Remember you are performing Gauds work in testing them so feel free to indulge yourself, in front of them would be rather character building.

An off topic question that came up today. Has the Koran suffered from re-writes like the bible has?

petermcc - 6:30 PM - 6/2/2007

Bickies

How about I make the bickies my bargaining chip? No argument, no bickies.

As far as I know, the answer is no. That said however, the book was originally written in Arabic and should be read in Arabic. There are many translations though and I'm told that quite a lot is lost in the translation. Arabic prose doesn't translate to English very well at all.

On top of that though, you have the usual schisms and two main branches of the faith, with councils and debates, just like Christianity was at about the same age. It's an interesting history, but that's another story and many posts and much further down the line (it's a difficult read...)

plonka - 8:50 PM - 6/2/2007

Sorry for the late wish

Happy Birthday Plonka
I hope I can remember half of what you did with the jw next time they knock on my door
Maybe next year you will get some mormons

Worker - 10:33 AM - 7/2/2007

Thanks Worker

I appreciate it...:)

There's plenty of info here, if you feel inclined to look around. Some it's a bit long winded, but all the history should be there.

I find the Jehovah's to be quite easy to deal with and quite a bit of fun. The Mormons are a different story. I have yet to read "The Book of Mormon" and don't know enough about their history to argue it well so I use those guys as a learning aid at the moment...:)

plonka - 10:57 AM - 7/2/2007

Mormon text

I had the Mormon's leave me a text (I think it was supposed to be their bible) but I didn't get very far. The text opened with something like "Gaud said pack up your things and move to America"

Strewth. There appears to be a few years missing here.

Perhaps it was some sort of Primer but I just couldn't stand it.

petermcc - 4:34 PM - 7/2/2007

Standing it...

I find that if you look at it as comedy, it's much easier...:)

Was that Brigham Young or John Smith? I can never remember who came first... The book of Mormon is about the size of a standard new testament.

plonka - 5:26 PM - 7/2/2007

*guilty grin* Happy birthday mate... sorry it's a bit late.

I can't believe I missed your birthday!

Anyway, looks like you managed to score yourself some fun. We had the jw's here the other day too... it must be the time of the year, I think. I didn't allow myself as much fun as you though... I was about to start mowing the lawn so I just dealt with them as quickly as I could.
"Good afternoon maam, we're here to..."
"I don't mean to be rude, but I know who you are, I know what you're here for and I'm not interested."
"Oh... well... we're here to promote the word of god with our publication..." *holding up the watchtower*
"Sorry, but I'm not interested."
"In god, or just in general?"
"I have my own spiritual beliefs, which are none of your business just like your beliefs are none of mine. And to be honest, I resent people trying to sell me anything at my front door."
"Oh, we do it because Jesus did it."
"Jesus had to do it that way... he didn't have a car, or a phone, or a tv, or the internet."
"There's no need to be like that, you know?"
"Look lady... I'm just about to start mowing the lawn. It's hot, it's going to rain, we have a house inspection in an hour and a half, and I just don't have the time to humour you. Good bye. Have a nice day."
At that I turned away from them, but I could hear them whispering together as they left. I wonder what they were saying about me?

Anonymous - 9:33 AM - 9/2/2007

Ooopsies... that was me.

:o)

tinacee - 9:36 AM - 9/2/2007

Ta...:)

Thanks Tina. I rather my birthday was later than sooner anyway...:)

It's amazing how they can say things like "there's no need to be like that" when being annoying is exactly what they're doing and generally, they go first. They always seem to lose sight of the "do unto others" thing when it comes to proselytising the faith.

plonka - 10:17 AM - 9/2/2007