MarkT

Ten Verses Never Preached On

{ 3:04 PM, 25/4/2009 } { Posted in Clergy } { 0 comments } { Link }

Ten Verses Never Preached On
Written Dec 5th, 2006 by Josh Rives

from http://www.churchhopping.com/ten-verses-never-preached-on/

10. 2 Kings 2:23-24 NKJV

Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road,
some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, "Go up, you
baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" So he turned around and looked at them, and
pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears
came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

Comments: George Costanza envokes the wrath of God.

9. Mark 14:51-52 NASB

A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his
naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and
escaped naked.

Comments: Possibly the first streaker in history.

8. Deuteronomy 23:1 ESV

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall
enter the assembly of the Lord.

Comments: We can't just be letting anyone in. We have to draw the line
somewhere.

7. Genesis 38:8-10 NASB

Then Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife, and perform your
duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother."
Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his
brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give
offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of
the LORD; so He took his life also.

Comments: Not only do you have to carry the body out, but you have to mop
the floor too.

6. 1 Samuel 18:25-27 ESV

Then Saul said, "Thus shall you say to David, 'The king desires no
bride-price except a hundred foreskins of the Philistines, that he may be
avenged of the king's enemies.'" Now Saul thought to make David fall by the
hand of the Philistines. And when his servants told David these words, it
pleased David well to be the king's son-in-law. Before the time had expired,
David arose and went, along with his men, and killed two hundred of the
Philistines. And David brought their foreskins, which were given in full
number to the king, that he might become the king's son-in-law. And Saul
gave him his daughter Michal for a wife.

Comments: How do you present a gift like that? Do you tie a bow on the box?

5. Exodus 4:24-25 NASB

Now it came about at the lodging place on the way that the LORD met him
and sought to put him to death. Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her
son's foreskin and threw it at Moses' feet, and she said, "You are indeed a
bridegroom of blood to me."

Comments: I imagine the son was screaming in pain and Moses just kinda
stared at it in disgust.

4. Ezekiel 16:17 NIV

You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the jewelry made of my gold and
silver, and you made for yourself male idols and engaged in prostitution
with them.

Comments: What did she do with her gold and silver idols?

3. Ezekiel 23:19-20 NET

Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when
she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after their
genitals as large as those of donkeys, and their seminal emission was as
strong as that of stallions.

Comments: Can't wait to hear this taught from a pulpit.

2. Judges 3:19-25 ESV

And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the sword from his right thigh,
and thrust it into his belly. And the hilt also went in after the blade, and
the fat closed over the blade, for he did not pull the sword out of his
belly; and the dung came out.

Comments: Apparently the sword pierced all the way through and something
unexpected came out the other side. The author felt this was a necessary
detail to include.

1. Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NASB

If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the
wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who
is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you
shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.

Comments: My question is why would she do this and were there any repeat
offenders?

Ten Verses Never Preached On

{ 10:13 AM, 22/3/2008 } { Posted in Clergy } { 0 comments } { Link }

Written Dec 5th, 2006 by Josh Rives

10. 2 Kings 2:23-24 NKJV

Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road,
some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, "Go up, you
baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" So he turned around and looked at them, and
pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears
came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

...

9. Mark 14:51-52 NASB

A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his
naked body; and they seized him. But he pulled free of the linen sheet and
escaped naked.

...

8. Deuteronomy 23:1 ESV

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall
enter the assembly of the Lord.

...

7. Genesis 38:8-10 NASB

Then Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife, and perform your
duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother."
Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his
brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give
offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of
the LORD; so He took his life also.

...

6. 1 Samuel 18:25-27 ESV

Then Saul said, "Thus shall you say to David, 'The king desires no
bride-price except a hundred foreskins of the Philistines, that he may be
avenged of the king's enemies.'" Now Saul thought to make David fall by the
hand of the Philistines. And when his servants told David these words, it
pleased David well to be the king's son-in-law. Before the time had expired,
David arose and went, along with his men, and killed two hundred of the
Philistines. And David brought their foreskins, which were given in full
number to the king, that he might become the king's son-in-law. And Saul
gave him his daughter Michal for a wife.

...

5. Exodus 4:24-25 NASB

Now it came about at the lodging place on the way that the LORD met him
and sought to put him to death. Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her
son's foreskin and threw it at Moses' feet, and she said, "You are indeed a
bridegroom of blood to me."

...

4. Ezekiel 16:17 NIV

You also took the fine jewelry I gave you, the jewelry made of my gold and
silver, and you made for yourself male idols and engaged in prostitution
with them.

...

3. Ezekiel 23:19-20 NET

Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when
she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after their
genitals as large as those of donkeys, and their seminal emission was as
strong as that of stallions.

...

2. Judges 3:19-25 ESV

And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the sword from his right thigh,
and thrust it into his belly. And the hilt also went in after the blade, and
the fat closed over the blade, for he did not pull the sword out of his
belly; and the dung came out.

...

1. Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NASB

If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the
wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who
is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you
shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.

....

from http://www.churchhopping.com/ten-verses-never-preached-on/

RICHARD JOHNSON (1753?-1827)

{ 3:11 PM, 24/1/2008 } { Posted in Clergy } { 0 comments } { Link }

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JOHNSON, RICHARD (1753?-1827), Church of England clergyman, .... ordained by
the bishop of Oxford in 1784. On 24 October Johnson received a royal warrant
appointing him 'Chaplain to the settlement' of New South Wales. ... Johnson
owed his nomination to the Eclectic Society, a group of evangelical clergy
and laymen interested among other things in missions and in prison reform.
... As chaplain to the settlement, 'according to the rules and discipline
of war', he had to be the guardian of public morality; Phillip considered
this to be Johnson's main, if not his only, duty. As a clergyman under the
general jurisdiction of the bishop of London he had to carry on the regular
ministrations of the church. As the protégé of the evangelicals, and by his
own unswerving convictions, he had the task of promoting the conversion of
his charges. Johnson never succeeded in reconciling the three or in carrying
out any of them to his own satisfaction. ... However, his extensive
correspondence with English patrons and friends, filled with accounts of the
depravity of the convicts and indifference of the officials, was probably
more pessimistic in tone than his practical achievements warranted. ... On 3
February 1788 he conducted the first divine service in Sydney 'under some
trees' (or 'a great tree') and preached from the text 'What shall I render
unto the Lord for all His benefits toward me' (Psalm 116: 12). On 17
February he celebrated Holy Communion in the 'markee' of Lieutenant Clark,
.... he carried out all the clerical duties of the colony for six years. He
held services, either in the open air or in a store-house, at Sydney and
Parramatta, performed the occasional offices of the church-baptisms,
marriages, churchings, burials-attended the execution of condemned men and
worked hard among the convicts. One of them wrote home, amid the sickness
and hunger of 1790, that 'few of the sick would recover if it was not for
the kindness of the Rev. Mr Johnson, whose assistance out of his own stores
makes him the physician both of soul and body'. In the horror of the Second
Fleet he ignored Newton's earlier advice that 'it will be madness in you to
risk your health, by going down into the hold of a ship, where the air must
be always putrid from the breath of a crowd of passengers in chains'. He
supported Phillip's policy of befriending the Aboriginals, took a native
girl, Abaroo (Boo-ron), into his family, and once remained as a hostage
while Bennelong visited the governor. ... When Phillip was succeeded by
Lieutenant-Governor Francis Grose Johnson's time of troubles began. Grose
represented Johnson as 'one of the people called Methodists, [and] a very
troublesome, discontented character'. In 1793 Johnson, tired of being a
'field-preacher' and despairing of getting a church built by the government,
irritated Grose by putting one up at his own expense at a cost of £67 12s.
11½d. Disputes also arose over the time allowed for Sunday morning service,
the chaplain's ministrations to men under sentence, the enforcement of
Phillip's regulation for church attendance and the withdrawal of most of
Johnson's convict labour. When Samuel Marsden arrived as second chaplain in
1794 he found Johnson and Grose 'involved in a serious quarrel'. Grose and
Johnson had different views of the chaplain's office. The
lieutenant-governor considered Johnson's emphasis on personal salvation
detrimental to good order and discipline-hence the unfounded but not
surprising charge of Methodism-while Johnson believed that the twin aspects
of religion could not be separated. So he came to think of Grose's rule as a
time when 'things went on from bad to worse, and from worse to worse still,
until (I will not say all vital religion and godliness, but) even almost all
common morality, and even decency, was banished from the Colony'.

Johnson found Governor Hunter more sympathetic. In 1797 he was recompensed
for his church, and in July 1798 wrote in defence of Hunter's administration
against the charges of John Macarthur, of whose conduct and that of the
trader-officers he disapproved strongly. In October his temporary church was
burned down and a new store-shed had to be fitted up hastily for divine
service. Johnson had general supervision over the increasing number of
schools, and in August 1800 Lieutenant-Governor King set up a committee,
with Johnson as treasurer, to conduct an orphan institution. Johnson used
money from former subscriptions that he had collected. A month later he was
thanked 'for his attention and assiduity in the concerns of the orphans in
the colony'. But in October King had to publish yet another order
'respecting a proper attention being paid to the observance of the Sabbath'.
He reported that Johnson 'has met with much obstruction formerly in the
execution of his duty. I believe him to [be] a very honest man, and I think
has been ill-used in this colony by those in it'.

Johnson had been appointed by Phillip to act as a civil magistrate. He was
removed by Grose but reinstated by Hunter and remained in the office until
he left the colony. Such an appointment was not unusual, for this was the
hey-day of the clerical justice of the peace and Johnson, as a civil
official, believed it his duty to take part in the administration of
justice. However, his main secular occupation and chief solace was farming.
.... Before he sailed for England Johnson sold his Canterbury farm to
William Cox and disposed of his land at Ryde, but he does not seem to have
engaged in agriculture and stock-raising solely for gain. It gave him
personal satisfaction and contributed to the colony's morale and well-being.
... In 1812 he made his last contribution to Australia by giving evidence
before the select committee of the House of Commons on transportation. He
died on 13 March 1827.

Johnson had married just before sailing for New South Wales; his wife, who
survived him until 1831, bore him a daughter whom he called by an Aboriginal
name, Milbah (b.1790), and a son (b.1792).

from http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A020018b.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Top 10 Countries that CLERGY DON'T GO TO!!!

{ 12:43 PM, 3/2/2007 } { Posted in Clergy } { 0 comments } { Link }

Rowland Croucher wrote:

Top Ten Countries Persecuting Christians in 2006

> 1. North Korea
..
> 2. Saudi Arabia
...
> 3. Iran
...
> 4. Somalia
..
> 5. Maldives
...
> 6. Bhutan
...
> 7. Vietnam
...
> 8. Yemen
...
> 9. Laos
...
> 10. China
...

So clergy all over the world, who believe in what the Bible says, namely
....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I listen to wisdom and will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of harm. Pr 1.33

I will both lie down in peace and sleep, for the Lord alone makes me dwell in safety. Ps 4.8

I will not be afraid of ten thousands of people, who have set themselves against me all around. Ps 3.6

God has given me authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy - nothing will harm me. Lk 10.19

I dwell in the shelter of the Most High. I rest in the shadow of the Almighty. The Lord is my refuge and my fortress; my God, in whom I trust. He will save me from the fowler's snare, and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover me with His feathers, and under his wing I will find refuge. His faithfulness will be my shield and rampart. I will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day, nor the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday. A thousand may fall at my side, ten thousand at my right hand, but it will not come near me. I will only observe with my eyes and see the punishment of the wicked. I make the
Most High my dwelling - even the Lord, who is my refuge. No harm will befall me. No disaster will come near my tent. God will command His angels concerning me to guard me in all my ways. They will lift me up in their hands, so that I will not strike my foot against a stone. I will tread upon the lion and the cobra. I will trample the great lion and the serpent. Because I love the Lord, the Lord will rescue me. God will protect me, because I acknowledge God's name. I will call upon the Lord, and the Lord will rescue me. God will be with me in trouble. God will deliver me. God will honour me. With long life God will satisfy me and show me His
salvation. Ps 91.1-91.16

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

... are all clammering to be missionaries in these countries for the rest of their lives ..... NOT!!!!

WHY??????

> 'If you put yourself first, you will be last .... do not be afraid, I have
> overcome the whole Universe' (Jesus, paraphrased by C S Lewis in "God in
> the Dock").

As if clergy actually believe that! See above ;-)

Your own PERSONAL JESUS

{ 4:38 PM, 17/1/2007 } { Posted in Clergy } { 0 comments } { Link }

Responding to a Baptist minister back from a time of paid seminars .......

>>> THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO HEAVEN WITHOUT A
>>> PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS CHRIST.
>>
>> Poor Abraham and Moses never had a relationship with Jesus of Nazareth
>> and >> therefore are being burnt in hell by the fundamentalist luving
>> Gawd as we speak.
....
> For many the idea of Jesus as my "personal Savior" has become another
> personal consumer product (like personal computers, a personal journal,
> personal time etc.). 'The ultimate consumerism is narcissism. Being
> preoccupied with our own individual salvation puts us in danger of being
> like selfish people on the Titanic who were scrambling for the life rafts,
> more concerned about themselves than others.'

That's modern institutionalised Christianity.

All glamour and no guts.

Sermoans dumbed down to the lowest level. ("Keep the plebs ignorant!")

Bible Studies that share ignorance.

How many times did Jesus preach in the Jerusalem Temple by invitation?

How much did Jesus get paid for his "seminars"?

How much did he receive in royalties, tithes and "love offerings" ON TOP of his salary?

Did Jesus get "mates rates" for being in the clergy?

Why did Paul have a real job as a tentmaker?

How did Paul manage to do so much while still working in a regiular job?

Why does NO Christian seminar ever mention these things???????

Oh ...how was your recent paid seminar? ;-)

One of my Baptist minsiter friends is having a holiday back home in Australia before going back (again) to "ministry" overseas which is being paid for by donations (ON TOP of his usual salary) asked for through his newsletter.

It must be a hard life ... as bad as that of kids working in the coal mines in a former time.

One thinks of Albert Schweitzer and his immense difficulty getting sponsors so he could be a doctor in Africa rather than a doctor in Europe or a missionary in Africa.

Schweitzer discovered the meaning of Christianity and left Europe to help others.

What does "ministry" mean again??????

> I am a Christian because I believe that Jesus is the Savior of the whole
> world.

I'm a Christian because I believe Jesus of Nazareth is God's Christ (but not God).

Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God {YAHWEH NOT YAHWEH'S HUMAN MESSIAH] with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22:37-40 - Why does modern Christianity ADD to this????

I also believe in the GOSPEL ................

What IS the gospel / good news???

MARK'S GOSPEL (ending at Mark 16:8)

1:15; 4:11; 4:14; 6:12; 9:1;13:9-10 all describe the gospel / good news as announcing that the kingdom [realm] of God is here so one must turn away from one's sins. Nothing more! Count how many times Jesus says the "the kingdom of God is like" in Mark's gospel!

MATTHEW'S GOSPEL

4:17; 4:23; 5:19; 6:33; 7:21; 9:35; 10:7; 11:12; 12:28; 13:11; 13:19; 13:38;13;52; 18:2; 19:23; 21:31 21:43; 23:13; 24:34; 25:34 ff; 26:13; describe the gospel / good news as announcing that the kingdom [realm] of heaven is here so one must turn away from one's sins. Nothing more! (Matthew prefers 'kingdom of heaven" to "kingdom of God") Count how many times Jesus says the "the kingdom of God is like" in Matthew's gospel!

Why is the current Church gospel of "invite Jesus into your cardiac muscle" so different to the early Christian gospel (considering Mark wrote the first gospel)?????

Matthew 7:21-23 states "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father [YAHWEH NOT YAHWEH'S HUMAN MESSIAH] who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

> people considered themselves Christians simply because they were German or
> Danish or Italian or American.

Like Jews considered themselves Jewish and the people of Israel.

... and think of all the COMMUNAL things stated in the OT ....

If my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. - 2 Chronicles 7:14.

> They saw themselves as generic Christians without personal commitment.

The Jews didn't. Why is it different for Christians?

> The "personal Savior" gospel arose, in part at least, to encourage
> personal commitment; one made a personal commitment by believing in Jesus
> as their personal Savior.

In contrast to what God said in the Bible .....

"Look unto Me [YAHWEH], and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth; for I [YAHWEH] am God, and there is none else [INCLUDING JESUS OF NAZARETH]." Isaiah 45:21

"I (YAHWEH NOT YAHWEH'S MESSIAH), even I ( NOT YAHWEH'S MESSIAH), am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no
more. " - Isaiah 43:25

Then God spoke all these words. He said: 'I am Yahweh your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have NO GODS (INCLUDING JESUS) EXCEPT ME.' - Exodus 20: 1-2

Your own personal Jesus ... just like your own personal idol .....

#########################################################

"YOUR OWN PERSONAL JESUS" - Depeche Mode
(Also covered by the Christian Johhny Cash on American IV)

Your own personal jesus
Someone to hear your prayers
Someone who cares
Your own personal jesus
Someone to hear your prayers
Someone whos there

Feeling unknown
And youre all alone
Flesh and bone
By the telephone
Lift up the receiver
Ill make you a believer

Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess
I will deliver
You know Im a forgiver

Reach out and touch faith
Reach out and touch faith

Your own personal jesus...

Feeling unknown
And youre all alone
Flesh and bone
By the telephone
Lift up the receiver
Ill make you a believer

I will deliver
You know Im a forgiver

Reach out and touch faith

Your own personal jesus

Reach out and touch faith

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your own personal idol
Someone to hear your prayers
Someone who cares
Your own personal idol
Someone to hear your prayers
Someone whos there ... in effigy

Reach out ........ and give money to your local church

Take second best ... Jesus the Messiah rather than Jesus' One God

"I [Jesus] am ascending to MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, MY GOD AND YOUR GOD" - John 20:17

Does God have a God?????

MINISTERS OF RELIGION NO LONGER REQUIRED

{ 11:51 AM, 6/6/2006 } { Posted in Clergy } { 0 comments } { Link }

Some comments by John Shelby Spong which are worth noting.

Why has the church become so irrelevant to the majority of society?

Who is to blame?

CLERGY!

A New Reformation is required that reforms the Reformation. A "Protesting" against the Protestant Fundamentalist Dark Age

Jesus never intended simony and abuse of power to be the practice of his church.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We noted earlier that this priestly power was born in that unioque but primitive claim that the designated holy person could somehow stand between the theistic God above and the fragile life of a human below. The priestly person claimed thge ability and the right of interpreting the ways of God to human life. ... So the priest claimed the power to decide how God was to be
properly worshipped and what God required in term's of the people's ethical behaviour. In a believing age, the people accepted this claim with remarkable acquiescence. As the power of the professional holy person grew, it befgan to be assumed that the priest had the ability to
forgive sins and convey blessings. ... In the heyday of this priestly power, claims were made that the only way such a theistic God could operate was through the authorized sacraments of the established Church. These sacraments were the solitary means of grace for all people, but only the legitimately authorized and ordained priest could administer them. ... The heavenly Father God was represented by the ordained father figure. Theism was incarnate in the male priesthood. p. 179-180

The channels of grace for a nontheistic God cannot be closed or controlled by the designated holy person. p. 181

Worship beyond the exile will not be marked with words chanted to an external deity. ... Since God will be seen as the presence at the heart of life, available to everyone and not as the special possession of the religious institution, then surely worship in the future will be less and less hierarchical and more and more circular. ... It will cease to pretend that it speaks for God or that it is the sole channel for divine grace. It will dedicate itself to the search for truth, universal truth, rather than expending its energies in seeking to defend its narrow version of truth. It will treasure its sacred scriptures as the record of its ancestors in faith as they sought to worship God. But it will not be bound by either the cultural or the cultic limitations of those scriptures. It will recognize that the revelations of the Holy One did not cease when the canon of scripture was closed. p.187

The world is taking aprt in a spiritual quest, but many citizens of this century no longer believe that the Church is an asset to their quest. p. 188

The mission of the Christian Church is not to convert the world, but to call all who are also a part of the creation into the fullness of life. p. 196

Those whose lives are dedicated to serving the Church of the past will resist these suggestions with a vehemence that always emerges from threatened hierarchies and dying institutions. p. 198

We must lay down, therefore, the primitive claims we have made for our religious traditions. None of them is drawn from otherworldly revelations. None of them is inerrant or infallible. None of them represents the only way to God. None of them can be used legitimately to coerce or compel another to belief. All evangelical and missionary activities designed to
convert the heathen are base born. They are expressions of our sense of superiority and hostility toward those who are different. p.225

from John Shelby Spong "Why Christianity Must Change Or Die" (Harper SanFransico: 1999)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When the theistic deity of the past is abandoned, the power claims made in the name of that deity will also have to be dismissed. The primary political purpose that these claims serve is to enable a particular institution to assert that it alone possesses the truth and to suggest that
those who are not part of that particular community of faith are lost in the darkness of their own errors. These power-claims increase the pressure for coversion to the life of the institution in question by offering would-be converts the reward of a salvation that is not available to anyone who is not a "true believer" or part of the "true church". This system makes clear to any who bother to look, just who is "in" and who is "out". pp 171-172

... ecclesiastical creeds can also never capture the truth of God, all they can do is point to it. p. 179

Guilt will no longer be a method of control and oppression in this emerging ecclesia. p. 213.

The ecclesia of the future will exhibit a renewed dedication to the search for truth. It will never claim that it already possesses the truth by divine revelation. It will seek to enlighten people by homouring their questions. It will not seek to propagandize people by claiming that it has
all the answers. The have the ecclesia be the recognized centre of learning where truth from every human branch of knowledge, even that truth which challenges previous religious presuppositions, will be its primary source of both appreciation and power. p. 214

God is not bounded by our formulas, our creeds, our doctrines, our liturgies, or even our Bible, but still real, infinitely real. p.214

... people in leadership positions will not be portrayed, as they have been in the past, as all-knowing parents relating to their immature children, or as royalty sitting on a throne waiting to receive the homage of the people. ... The institutional head of the ecclesia of the future will be part of a hierarchy of service, not a hierarchy of power. p. 215

The church has sought to silence, reject, or marginalize its critics. p. 228

If God is not a being, then no human hierarchy can claim to be the chosen receptor for this being's revelation, the guardian of this being's truth, or the dispensor of this being's grace. In that assertion all ecclesiastical power-claims disappear, feeding religious insecurity. ... The church, the body of Christ, must be reconstructed from the bottom up. p. 241

John Shelby Spong " A New Christianity For A New World" (Harper Collins: 2001)

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MarkT

Ten Verses Never Preached On

Ten Verses Never Preached On

RICHARD JOHNSON (1753?-1827)

Top 10 Countries that CLERGY DON'T GO TO!!!

Your own PERSONAL JESUS

MINISTERS OF RELIGION NO LONGER REQUIRED

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