MarkT

How To Attend Church

What's Wrong With Church?

from http://www.whatswrongwithchurch.com/

What's Wrong With Church?

Church attendence in our area is on the decline. We're curious as to why. We'd love it if you'd tell us.

  a.. We have no hidden agenda.
  b.. This isn't a marketing ploy.
  c.. It's totally anonymous (unless you want to tell us.)
  d.. We aren't going to contact you (unless you ask us to)
  e.. We just need your help. Be as quick or as thorough as you want.

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How utterly refreshing!   No-one has ever asked me why I am NOT attending their church.

I'd like to reply with "What's RIGHT about church?" - the list would be far smaller - but I thi9nk I'll send him this post.

Here are some of my comments on Philip Yancey's "Church Why bother?" (Zondervan :1998) .... My comments in *[ ... ]

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They talked about Grace but lived by Law; they spoke of love but showed signs of hate. p. 19  * [I would also add that they only "luv" those who are similar to themselves and shun outsiders. Change is VERBOTEN!]

Christianity kept me from Christ. p. 19 *[Christianity KEEPS me from the ONE GOD YAHWEH whom the human Christ worshiped. They STILL don't get it!  Jesus is still far more important than God in most churches.]

Far fewer people attend church on Sunday than calim to follow Christ *[or claim to follow the same ONE GOD YAHWEH whom the Christ followed]  ... they feel burned or even betrayed by a former church experience. Others simply "get nothing out of church." *[I get boredom out of church which I guess is
something rather than nothing.] p. 20

"What would church look like if every member were just like me?" pp.20-21 *[100% better!  I wouldn't have to leave my brain at the entrance as usual.]

... sit for thirty to forty minutes in a straight-backed chair and listen to someone lecture me. * [who has dumbed down his Sermoan to the lowest possible cretin and states the bleeding obvious that I could have read in an email in 5 seconds.] p. 21

I enjoyed small groups where people talked about their lives, discussed matters of faith, ... *[I abhored small groups led by uneducated illiterate mini-popes hand-picked by the pastor.  Their "discussions" included healing cancer through excorcism of a "malignant demon of cancer" - the couple who
stated this - Vaughan & Ellen Colebrook - have now moved to the USA and are "pastors" preaching such crap in a church.  I am also amused by the total outrage by one leader when I stated that the commandment to not covet your neighbour's WIFE must mean it's okay to covet your neighbour's husband as the text DEFINITELY says "WIFE". Questioning  is definitely NOT allowed in such groups.] p.22

The longer you stay away7 from church the stranger it seems *[and the better off you are. No more brainwashing! ... and you can sleep in on Sundays and don't have to pay tithes, offerings, love gifts, etc.] p. 22

C. S. Lewis and other notable Christians who wished to worship God *[THE ONE GOD YAHWEH AND NOT HIS HUMAN CHRIST JESUS OF NAZARETH] but experienced church as a hindrance rather than a help. *[Yep!  If I hear another Jesus Jingle I think I'll vomit all over the person playing it.] p.22

Annie Dillard once described her church this way, "Week after week I was moved by ... the fatigued bible readings, the lagging emptiness and dilution of the liturgy, the horrifying vacuity of the sermon, and by the fog of dreary senselessness pervading the whole ..." p. 22

Christianity ... can only be lived in community. p. 23 *[UTTER BULLSHIT!!! The insitutional church is only required as a control mechanism to stifle debate, cease all thinking and weed out anyone who dares to question the "DIVINE RIGHT OF PASTORS"]

... some people - those who live in small towns, for instance - have few options of churches to attend. p. 24 *[Tell me about it!  I have the choice of fundamentalist, rabid fundamentalist and ratbag fundamentalist. The choice is easy. Don't attend.]

I used to approach church with the spirit of a discriminating consumer. I viewed the worship service as a performance.  Give me something I like. p. 24  *[The alternative is the masochistic "Please bore me to death! Yes, sing that Jesus Jingle for the millionth time!  I love torture!!!  Oh, I don't care if your sermoan is so mind numbingly boring and simplistic that I think I might be dead and living in Hell!  Let me hear it again and again every year at the same time!!! ]

... the talent deficit I encounter in various churches. p. 25  *[because the church has treated the artist with contempt, banning art and criticising it in sermoans. The artists have fled for their lives. All you have left are Jesus Jingle "encouragers" - "Let's sing that Jesus Jingle ONE more time!"]

C S Lewis who wrote about his church "I disliked very mnuch their hymns, which I considered to be fifth rate poems set to sixth rate music." p. 25  *[He didn't even have to STAND through a "Marathon Jesus Jingle Singalaong" aka "Torture By Christian Muzak".]

Church exists primarily .... to worship God; if it fauils in that, it fails. p. 25 *[ It MISERABLY FAILS!  It fails to worship the ONE GOD YAHWEH instead of Jesus of Nazareth. Worship is NOT mindlessly singing Jesus Jingles.]

... a sacrifce of the heart. p. 26 *[It is more like a sacrifice of one's intellect and artistic sensibilities in being tortured by crap that one wouldn't listen to at home.]

I try to focus on that internal spirit rather than sitting back in my pew, like a theatre critic, making esthetic judgements. p. 26 [Good for you, Philip Yancey.  You can take my place and be tortured by senseless Jesus Jingles any time you wish.  I don't have to be FORCED to sing - or listen to - MUZAK.  Would the "worship leaders" like to listen to my cds of John Lennon and Yoko Ono's "Two Virgins" or the Legendary Stardust Cowboy's "Paralyzed"?  Both are painfully BAD!  IF "worship leaders" listened to such material they would start to realise what their crappy Jesus Jingles do to the rest of us.]

... the goal of worship - to meet God. p. 27  *[If that were a reality in church then I would glady attend.  Unfortunately the goal is to pay your tithes and offerings to support the pastor in the lifestyle that he has
become accustomed to, to brainwash you into believing the Sermoan and to make sure you have "accepted Jesus into your heart".  One can go a whole church service and ONLY hear about Jesus. God is ignored in most churches.]

... the mistake of intentionally seeking out churches composed of people like me.  I was looking for a congregation of my educational level, with my biblical background and my taste in hymns and liturgy. p.27 *[ That is NO mistake but commonsense!  I would be pleased with a congregation of HALF my
educational level WITHOUT Jesus Jingles who wanted to worship God rather than Jesus!  I don't think such an animal exists in my local area - Maitland "The City of Excitement" - still trying to find out where the excitement is!]

I resigned my self to church as a necessary spiritual discipline. p. 28 *[Good for you, Philip Yancey!  You can take my place in church and be bored to death any time that you wish.  I have fled to preserve my sanity.]

... sometimes these visitors would stretch out on the pews and snore loudly through the morning service. p.29. *[ I'm tempted ... VERY tempted!]

God's love comes free of charge, with no strings attached.  there is nothing I can do to make God love me more *[ including being bored to death at church every week and paying tithes and offerings for the privilege of being bored to death every week.  Maybe we can learn a lesson from that.] p. 33

"Welcome to the Body of Christ" *[IF, and only if, you believe EXACTLY as we do and IF you are similar to us.  Conditions apply.  Read the fine print.] p.39

The church, as Eugene Peterson has observed, is composed of equal parts mystery and mess. p. 45. *[ Eugene Peterson was wrong,. The church is composed of equal parts of misery amd mess.  What else can one call Jesus Jingles and Sermoans except "misery"???]

Mr Ponce provided for me a comforting male presence. p.54 *[Teehee! I dare not comment on that quote!]

I like to think of the church as one of those Emergi-Centres: open long hours, convenient to find, willing to serve the needs of people who drop in with unexpected emergencies. p.55 *[ Obviously delusional!  It is more like Room 101.]

... the Inquisition, Crusades, racial progroms, abuse of wealth ...... some human needs are still met best in the midst of a loving *[aka "luvving"] community like a church *[ with ongoing Inquisitions, Crusades, racial progroms, abuses of wealth. .................. Doh!] p.57

The church is God's neighbourhood bar *[fights every night!] p.67

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Islamic school would breed terrorists: resident

This is the type of racism that churches continue to support. It is a sad
day when other church leaders don't speak out against this uninformed racism
that lumps all Moslems with terrorists.

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Islamic school would breed terrorists: resident

Elicia Murray Urban Affairs Reporter

April 23, 2009

AN Islamic school in Camden would be "a breeding ground for terrorists",
says a resident who gave evidence in support of Camden Council at an appeal
against its decision to block the school.

Judith Bond said the school would teach war and how to kill.

"Values of violence will be emphasised. It will be a breeding ground for
terrorists . There will be a surge of gang rapes, looting and attacking
infidels," Ms Bond said.

Camden residents presented evidence via DVD at the second day of a hearing
to decide whether the $19 million Islamic school should be built on the
outskirts of the town south-west of Sydney.

The area's Christian values were threatened by the proposal, said another
resident, John Waterhouse, who warned Christmas decorations and nativity
scenes would be "pulled down or withdrawn on some sort of process of
religious nit-picking".

Describing Camden as "the mouse that dared to roar", he said he did not want
prayer mats unrolled in shops or "[our] teenage daughters subjected to
demeaning taunts wearing jeans, shorts or T-shirts".

Another resident, Kate McCullogh, who was compared with Pauline Hanson when
she addressed a meeting last year wearing an Akubra hat decorated with
Australian flags, said she was "no redneck xenophobic racist like the media
have put to me".

"Let's start making people understand that the Western way of life is the
best way of life," she said.

Other residents' objections were based on urban planning matters, including
traffic flow and proximity to working farms.

Until now, Camden Council has largely distanced itself from ideological
justifications for blocking the development application for a 900-student
school. When it voted unanimously to reject the project last May, it did so
"on planning grounds alone".

But on the opening day of the appeal to the Land and Environment Court on
Tuesday, council's barrister, Craig Leggat, SC, opened his evidence with a
letter signed by a group of the region's Christian leaders, who said Islam
was an ideology with a plan for world domination.

The Reverend Fred Nile, leader of the Christian Democratic Party and an
outspoken critic of the school, said the signatories had his full support.

None of the church leaders responded to the Herald's calls yesterday. The
hearing continues today.

with Josephine Tovey

from
http://www.smh.com.au/national/islamic-school-would-breed-terrorists-resident-20090422-affr.html

Churches oppose Islamic school

Churches oppose Islamic school

Elicia Murray Urban Affairs Reporter

April 22, 2009

CAMDEN'S Christian leaders have united to condemn the Quranic Society, which
wants to build an Islamic school in Camden, for espousing views which are
"incompatible with the Australian way of life".

The leaders of the St John's Anglican, Camden Presbyterian and Camden
Baptist churches and the Evangelical Sisterhood of Mary signed a letter to
Camden Council arguing that the proposal was not in the public interest.

"Camden is increasingly becoming a multicultural community, but when one
part of the community seeks to dominate the public space, as we have seen in
Auburn, Bankstown, Lakemba and more recently Liverpool, the social impact is
unacceptable," says the letter, which was read at the Quranic Society's
appeal to the Land and Environment Court yesterday.

"Our concern is the Quranic Society inevitably advocates a political
ideological position that is incompatible with the Australian way of life.
This includes promoting Quranic law as being superior to national laws and
regarding followers of any rival religion as inevitably at enmity with it."

The school proposal has split the Camden community.

The council voted unanimously to reject the original application for a
1200-pupil school "on planning grounds alone" last May.

After reducing its proposal to a school catering for 900 students, the
Quranic Society took its case to the Land and Environment Court.

Commissioner Graham Brown, who will decide the school's fate, visited the
site yesterday morning, along with lawyers, council officials and residents.
It is on a rural block on the corner of Cawdor and Burragarong roads.

The hearing continued at Camden Civic Centre in the afternoon, attended by
about 150 residents.

The hearing continues today.

from
http://www.smh.com.au/national/churches-oppose-islamic-school-20090421-ae1i.html

Bishop Lucifer!

HOW TO ATTEND CHURCH