30/7/2008 - 2500 Lost Heaps on Ebay Australia.....- Ebays Responses?
The gist of this is that a seller in Australia went belly up, and took off back to China - with lots of money.
This article is in TWO parts.
The first is an interview with DANIEL FEILER from Ebay in Australia, and it's interesting to see how he bullshits his way through everything...
The second interview, is with Fuzzy Hobbit and others, who appear to have a very good grasp of how the game is played, and who knows how to kick heads.
Separately each article in interesting...... but when you put them together.... Mmmmmm Mmmmmm !
The question is not how full of shit DANIEL FEILER is, it's how much shit can you shovel......
If I were you, I'd be swapping the shovel for a front end loader.... - that way at least you won't get buried in it.
PART 1.
ABC Online
PM - eBay buyers distraught as major seller in liquidation
[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2318130.htm]
PM - Tuesday, 29 July , 2008 18:04:00
Reporter: Donna Field
MARK COLVIN: Thousands of buyers on the online shopping and auction service, eBay have had their fingers burnt, with one of the biggest Australian sellers being placed in liquidation.
But people who bought goods from the Queensland-based company with eBay's preferred payment option will be assured of a refund.
Industry analysts say that the move will cost PayPal more than $1-million.
But those who didn't use PayPal will have a much harder time getting their money back.
Donna Field reports.
DONNA FIELD: ebusiness-supplies was one of eBay's biggest sellers, turning over $15-million last financial year, selling products as diverse as vibrating armchairs, electric guitars, children's motorbikes and universal remote controls.
But the Brisbane-based operation is now being liquidated and 2,500 customers have been left waiting for their goods.
eBay spokesman, Daniel Feiler, says while he can't comment on specific businesses that trade on the website, ebusiness-supplies has posted information telling its customers it's having some business issues.
DANIEL FEILER: The overwhelming majority of transactions on eBay are trouble free.
(Yeah yeah Yeah - trotting out the same old bullshit)
I think what we're seeing here is and as stated by the seller themself is a business issue, and unfortunately that is a sad fact that can happen to businesses whether they're on eBay or off eBay.
DONNA FIELD: The liquidators investigating ebusiness-supplies say the company is blaming an agent in Hong Kong for failing to provide a container full of goods.
Queensland Police is already investigating 12 allegations of fraud in relation to ebusiness-supplies and other states are expected to follow.
But there's some good news for people who bought from ebusiness-supplies. eBay's preferred payment method, PayPal, has agreed to refund their customers.
PayPal Australia's managing director is Andrew Pipolo:
ANDREW PIPOLO: We're actually not liable for it but it's something that, because of the circumstances of this particular seller, the impact on such a large number of buyers, we've made the decision to make a fund available to cover the expense.
DONNA FIELD: That exact amount is likely to be more than $1-million.
eBay's Daniel Feiler says the website urges people to use secure payment methods.
DANIEL FEILER: The advice that we give anybody that is using eBay is, get to know your seller, check the feedback that's a good indication of the reputation, that's the online reputation mechanism that eBay uses.
(These ebay people are like parrots - all spouting the same lines)
Secondly use a sensible, safe payment method. We recommend people use PayPal and finally check the safe trading guidelines that are available on ebay.com.au.
DONNA FIELD: But PayPal isn't for everybody.
Industry analyst and director of Taylored Web Services, Brendan Sinclair, says it's quite unpopular.
BRENDAN SINCLAIR: The problem is that people don't want to use PayPal some of the time because a lot of people think PayPal sucks and there's actually a website set up called PayPalSucks where there's lots of horror stories of PayPal not providing the seller with their money and causing all sorts of problems between buyers and sellers.
So people don't want to be forced into a situation where they have to use one particular one, they want have options, but with those other options comes risk.
ANDREW PIPOLO: He says eBay has a vested interest in people using PayPal because it owns the company and the ebusiness-supplies example is a way to encourage further use of PayPal.
BRENDAN SINCLAIR: And all these guys who have lost money on eBay now will obviously be upset. And they'll be particularly upset now because eBay goes we're going to refund everyone who's used PayPal, because there's a level of protection afforded it and people who haven't, who've paid via EFT (electronic funds transfer) or direct deposit or cheques or whatever are going to miss out.
ANDREW PIPOLO: The liquidators say people who used credit cards may also have some recourse to a refund. They're holding a creditors meeting early next month and all ebusiness-supplies customers will be notified by email.
And while eBay won't comment on specific sellers, spokesman Daniel Feiler says it's safe to say that action has been taken to stop ebusiness-supplies from further trade.
DANIEL FEILER: We can limit their account and reach out to educate them and try to get them to do the right thing, all the way through to suspending their account so they can't do any more activity, all the way through to proactively raising this with law enforcement and we do that regularly.
MARK COLVIN: eBay spokesman, Daniel Feiler, ending that report from Donna Field.
PART 2.
ITWIRE
http://www.itwire.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19711
&Itemid=1103&limit=1&limitstart=0&mosmsg=Thanks+for+your+vote%21
eBay rebels accuse eBay/PayPal over EBS fund “cover up”
One of the major sellers on eBay has gone belly up, leaving many customers in the lurch. eBay says it will refund people who purchased with PayPal, even though it is not obliged to do so, but will leave everyone else in the cold. An eBay rebel says it could be a “cover up” and has explained why.
eBay rebel “fuzzy-hobbit” (of no relation to me or the Fuzzy Logic blog) has posted a claim that eBay’s action in decided to refund PayPal purchases of items from the EBS (ebusiness-supplies) merchant on eBay could be a "cover up".
iTWire has received a copy of this claim and its reasoning, as well as information about the claim's location at the eBay Forums.
The information sent to iTWire is reprinted here with permission in italics:
“STOP PRESS: EBS/PAYPAL SAGA-SPECIAL FUND TO AVOID COURT ACTION?
“I'm no expert, but it looks to me like the so-called special fund to reimburse buyers who lost their PayPal payments is an ebay cover up job.
“Check this logic (evidence also appended below):
- PayPal only permits pre sales if the seller guarantees delivery within 20 days.
- However, EBS advertised all their products as ready for dispatch in 30 days.
- So looks like EBS listings were all in breach of PayPal terms and should not have been allowed by ebay to offer PayPal. (How long has ebay allowed EBS to do this?)
- Put another way (a rather messy way), PayPal seems to have no obligation to EBS to provide PayPal Buyer Protection.
- But how would unsuspecting ebay buyers know this - afterall the EBS listings all displayed the PayPal Buyer Protection logo?
- And furthermore, would these same unsuspecting buyers also know that the many quads and bikes that EBS listed were in the Vehicles category (Cars, Bikes, Boats) and thus are specifically excluded from the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy?
- Maybe .... I hear you say, but then the quads and bikes would be covered by ebay's Vehicle Purchase Protection policy, surely? Please?
- Unfortunately, probably not. ebay's Vehicle Protection Policy states that the "The car must be in Australia". And lets not forget, the reason the quad or bike is so cheap to start with is because its not here yet - its somewhere between China and Australia because ebay has allowed it to be pre-sold .... for years.
“But of course every mum and dad ebayer who wanted to buy a quad or bike for their kids will of course ignore the prominent PayPal Buyer Protection Policy logo plastered on every one of EBS listings. Surely they would have, wouldn't they? Please?
“Of course, every mum and dad ebayer will have spent days reconciling the inconsistencies between the PayPal User Agreement, the Ebay User Agreement and that third thing called a fair commercial agreement which complied fully with the consumer legislation of Australia.
“Sadly, but no. For they are just ordinary, honest, trusting mums and dads.
“Now I know why ebay and PayPal are moved to buy off these unlucky mums and dads and keep this whole debacle out of the courts.
“Shame on you ebay. Shame on you PayPal.”
”From PayPal Conditions
“Question : Does PayPal permit transactions for pre-sale items? :: Pre-sale items are advertised for sale before the seller has the items. Often, these items are sold before they are available to the general public. Or, the seller uses the funds from the sale to purchase the item that has already been sold.
“Answer : PayPal permits pre-sales on a limited basis, only if the seller guarantees delivery within 20 days from the date of purchase and clearly identifies the item as a pre-sale. PayPal may apply additional conditions, such as proof of the seller's ability to successfully deliver the product: supplier information, purchase invoices, postal information or proof of delivery.
“From a Typical EBS Listing :
“THIS IS A PRE-SALE / PRE-ORDER AUCTION
“(Your item will be dispatched within 30 days of the Auction End Date)
“WHY? -
“We have ordered container loads of bikes straight from the manufacturer and to save on costs we want to ship to you directly from the unloading docks therefore minimizing cost of warehouse storage cost in Australia
“We are offering Pre-Order / Pre-Sales to save you money and to stay competitive!
“HOW? -
“If we were to have container loads of these stored, we would require a huge warehouse and machinery. This will then lead to a higher cost for us and directly affect the price of the product.”
IS IT SAFE?
“Absolutely! We have been trading online since 2003 and had grown from a home based business to a company with our own offices and warehouse premises. We also have the opportunity to provide consumers a safer trading environment if you choose to pay via PayPal. They provide a Buyer Protection Program.
“HOW DO I BUY PRESALE ?
“Simply make your payment within 1 week of the Auction End Date
“(if your auction ended January 1, make payment by January 7)
- Your item will be dispatched within 30 days of the Auction End Date (if your auction ended January 1 your item will be dispatched by January 30) We will make you aware once your item has arrived and been dispatched from our warehouse.
“From PayPal Buyer Protection Policy
“4. Eligibility Requirements.
“In order for you to be considered for eligibility for the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy, all of the following requirements must be met:
“Purchase an eligible item. Your purchase must be for a tangible, physical good that can be shipped or delivered.
“However, the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy does not apply to the following items in the following circumstances:
• all cars, including vehicles which are covered by eBay’s "Vehicle Purchase Protection", available on www.ebay.com.au,
“From Vehicle Purchase Protection
“Buy a car with confidence on eBay Motors
“Buying a car is a major purchase and we want to provide you with the peace of mind you need to buy with confidence on eBay Motors. eBay Motors strongly advises you to only buy a car that is eligible for the Vehicle Purchase Protection program. The Vehicle Purchase Protection program can protect you from fraud or misrepresentation for up to $20,000 in the unlikely event that something should go wrong with your transaction*.
Check out our guide on how to avoid picking a lemon. Learn more
Make Sure You're Covered
5 Things You Must Do To Qualify For Vehicle Purchase Protection
1.…..
2. The Car must be in Australia
If the car is located overseas and the seller promises to ship it to you, it will not be covered by Vehicle Purchase Protection and we would advise you not to proceed with the purchase. Cars located within Australia but in another state can be covered if all other eligibility criteria are met. The car must have been listed on the Australian eBay website (ebay.com.au).
3, 4, 5.
The claim ends here. However... there is an interesting follow up post among several now listed.
A reponse to the claim that eBay and PayPal could be engaging in a cover up is also listed at the eBay forum, in italics:
It comes from an eBay member called “shortjack” and is as follows, in italics:
“So clearly all these buyers were ripped off before they pressed the 'bid' button. Ebay failed to ensure that it's pre sale sellers adhere to the buyer protection policy etc, and in turn, the buyers cop it sweet.
“So, in this example, it really wouldn't have mattered how the buyers paid or whether they used Paypal on the premise of Ebay's widespread propaganda.
“When is a duck not a duck? when it's a turkey.
“This is just a another Ebay generated farce, and I can see the logic in setting up a voluntary compo fund, because if this went to court, guess who would be left holding the bag of causality and negligence?
“Whilst compo is offered, the damage suits are quelled and the matter can't get into a court. Simple damage control, just like the holiday scam.
“So typical.”
The eBay saga shows no sign of eNding... anytime soon.
If you have the brains, the time and the know how, to weave your way through all the intricacies and traps and fine print - and contradictions in Ebays policies and how sleazy they are....
Like a louse trying to thead it's way through a birds nest.
Everything to do with Ebay and it's management, smacks of bullshit...
Ebays 2 faced payout, is nothing more than a cheap PR stunt to cover their tracks.
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