31/7/2008 - Consumer Alert: PayPal's Problems
Paypal / Ebay have had so many lawsuits thrown at them for being utter pricks and ripping people off...
Here is an interesting article on them written about 2000.
http://pcworld.about.com/magazine/2007p030id101525.htm
Consumer Alert: PayPal's Problems
Customer service woes continue to plague popular payment service.
--Tom Mainelli
If you're among the roughly 16 million people signed up to use PayPal, you know how handy the online payment service can be, and chances are, you've never had a problem.
That said, customer service has long been a trouble spot for the company, as we reported last October in Consumer Watch. And although PayPal says it has improved its service, two law firms have launched class-action suits against the company because of customer service problems.
Sheila Stawicki of Woodville, Alabama, knows those problems firsthand. She used PayPal without a hitch for two years. But in January someone fraudulently accessed her PayPal account and liberated $3000 from her bank account. She recovered half the money through her bank, but needed PayPal's help with the rest. After calling and e-mailing PayPal repeatedly for 45 days, Stawicki says she'd received only disconnects and canned replies. She got a refund after PC World contacted PayPal.
PayPal says Stawicki's case was an anomaly, caused partly by a now-complete move from paper to electronic affidavits. PayPal also added customer service staff: 280 agents are now available daily, says Vincent Sollitto, vice president of corporate communications. Most complaints are resolved within 24 hours, he says.
Lawsuits Pending
The two possible class-action lawsuits paint a less-rosy customer service picture.
One suit, handled by Girard Gibbs & De Bartolomeo of San Francisco, alleges PayPal places barriers between itself and users, hindering those who experience problems. The suit also contends PayPal goes overboard in its fraud prevention, sometimes erroneously freezing or closing accounts.
The other suit, filed by national firm Jacoby and Meyers, makes similar claims. Even without advertising the suit (it's unlikely to get class-action status for a few months), the firm already has nearly a thousand complaints about PayPal, says Gail Koff, a founding member of the practice.
PayPal's Sollitto says neither lawsuit has merit and they will be contested "vigorously."
PayPal has made a business decision to save money by offering sometimes inadequate support to users who aren't business-class, paying customers, says Avivah Litan, vice president and research director at Gartner Research.
Sellers pay per transaction, but buyers get to use PayPal's service for free. PayPal isn't concerned about losing some nonpaying users, Litan says.
Sollitto vehemently denies that PayPal offers poor service to any of its customers.
Not A Bank
Paypal's customer service troubles highlight the fact that while PayPal looks like a bank, it has carefully avoided becoming one, says Steve Schutze, the American Banking Association's e-strategies director.
Banks must abide by regulatory and internal audits, and by other rules, he says. But "there is no regulation that says they [PayPal] must work with you to resolve the problem."
PayPal's chief competitor, EBay Payments (formerly BillPoint), follows banking regulations because it outsources all payment banking functions to Wells Fargo, a national bank which once owned 35 percent of BillPoint. Citibank offers C2It, another rival, so it too falls under banking rules.
All in all, negative press over the pending suits and poor customer service don't seem to be diminishing users' appetite for PayPal. Gartner analysts project that the company, which debuted in 2000 with about 10,000 users, will reach 25 million users by 2003.
How To Pay It Smart
Online payment services are just too darn useful for many of us to give up. If you're going to use one, follow these commonsense tips.
- Read the fine print. If you see a privacy or service term you don't like or understand (a demand for your Social Security number, or e-mail-only customer service), reconsider signing up.
- Protect your passwords. Use different passwords for multiple accounts, make them tough to guess, change them often, and never share them. Broken passwords lead to most fraud.
- See what others are saying. Check a favorite auction site's message board, or visit AuctionWatch or the Online Traders Web Alliance for user opinions. AuctionBytes also has payment service reviews at its site.
- Don't use a debit card. And think twice about giving the service your checking account information. Using only a credit card keeps your exposure low, and you can contest fraudulent charges. You may, however, have a spending cap.
- Don't keep large sums in your account. That way, if the service freezes your account, you're not out the cash while the problem is resolved.
- Read your e-mail. Don't assume a message from your payment service is spam. It could be your only warning that something is wrong.
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31/7/2008 - Ebay tried to force everyone to pay, by Paypal only, back in 2005
Yes your friends and ours, Ebay (international) made an application for an exemption for exclusive dealing, back in 2005.
It's not the FIRST time that Ebay has tried to make everyone use ONLY Paypal and EXCLUSIVELY use Paypal.....
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/719618/fromItemId/729974
eBay International A.G. - Notification - N31491
| Outcome |
Allowed to stand
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| Applicant(s) |
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| Notification number(s)/Dates lodged |
- N31491, 15th December 2005
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| Summary |
eBay International AG ("eBay") proposes that the only payment option for Australian eBay Members wishing to buy Digital Items through the DDG service will be PayPal Inc.'s (and from 2.2.06 its Australian subsidiary's [PayPal Australia Pty Ltd]) payment service.
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"The Notification" - Mmmmmmm Mmmmmmm - don't they just lie their fat little pencil pushing arses off to the ACCC, about the other payment methods.....
Mmm Mmmmm - to the seasoned street fighters of ecommerce, who love to sink the boots back into Ebay - Check it Out.
The guts of the application:
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30/7/2008 - Amazon.com - New Payment System........................... ( = no paypal)
Checkout by Amazon
Checkout by Amazon
Checkout by AmazonTM is a complete ecommerce checkout solution that provides your customers with the same secure and trusted checkout experience available on Amazon.com today. It offers unique features including Amazon's 1-Click® and tools for businesses to manage shipping charges, sales tax, promotions, and post-sale activities including refunds, cancellations, and chargebacks.
Key Features of Checkout by Amazon
* Low friction for Amazon customers: Customers can use the information from their Amazon.com account and other websites powered by Amazon.com to complete purchases on your website without having to re-enter their shipping address or payment information.
* Familiar checkout experience: Checkout by Amazon provides the familiar checkout experience available on Amazon.com today on your website.
* 1-Click ordering: Checkout by Amazon can identify Amazon.com customers shopping on your website and offer them Amazon's 1-Click experience. This allows customers to place orders instantly without leaving your website.
* Cart up-sell: Checkout by Amazon enables you to up-sell your products within the checkout pipeline. At your option, you can also earn Amazon.com Associate commissions for up-selling Amazon products during checkout. *
* Reduced bad debt: Amazon's proven fraud detection capabilities, chargeback controls, and risk management processes reduce bad debt.
* Shipping rates and Sales tax: Checkout by Amazon provides real-time shipping and sales tax calculation when customers place orders. It provides tools to easily configure the shipping and sales tax rates.
* Promotions: Checkout by Amazon provides tools to create and offer customized promotions to your customers.
* Purchase protection for your customers: Your customers will feel more confident buying from your site knowing that they have the same protection under the Amazon A-to-z Guarantee that they have when they shop on Amazon.com.
* Order management: Checkout by Amazon provides tools to view, edit, settle, and cancel orders, search orders by date, download orders in a text file, and print shipping labels and packing slips.
* Works seamlessly with Fulfillment by Amazon: Checkout by Amazon combined with Fulfillment by Amazon (FBA) enables you to outsource both transaction processing and fulfillment. **
* Co-branded payment pages: You can co-brand the checkout pipeline hosted by Amazon Payments with your own logo.
To learn more about how Checkout by Amazon works, visit What Your Customers See and How Checkout by Amazon Works for You.
Key Benefits to Your Customers
* Convenience: Customers can use the information in their Amazon.com account to complete purchases on your website without having to re-enter their shipping address or payment information. Customers can also place orders instantly using Amazon's patented 1-Click feature.
* Trusted checkout experience: The secure and familiar checkout experience customers enjoy at Amazon.com is now available on your website.
* Purchase protection for your customers: Your customers will feel more confident buying from your site knowing that they have the same protection under the Amazon A-to-z Guarantee that they have when they shop on Amazon.com.
Key Benefits to You
* Increased conversion: Amazon's familiar checkout experience, 1-Click ordering, A-to-z Guarantee, and tens of millions of customers who can checkout without re-entering information helps you optimize conversion on your website.
* Reduced bad debt: Amazon's proven fraud detection capabilities, chargeback controls, and risk management processes reduce bad debt.
* Easy integration: Simple-to-implement copy and paste code makes it easy to integrate Checkout by Amazon into your website.
* Cart up-sell: Checkout by Amazon enables you to up-sell your products within the checkout pipeline. At your option, you can also earn Amazon.com Associate commissions for up-selling Amazon products during checkout. *
* Works seamlessly with Fulfillment by Amazon: Checkout by Amazon combined with Fulfillment by Amazon (FBA) enables you to outsource both transaction processing and fulfillment. **
Pricing
There are no start-up charges, monthly charges, hidden fees, or long-term contracts when using Checkout by Amazon.
Fees are assessed on a per-transaction basis and vary depending on the transaction amount. They are based on a percentage of the transaction amount plus a per transaction fee.
For Transactions >= $10:
* 2.9% + $0.30 for all transactions
Volume Discounts
* 2.5% + $0.30 for all transactions for monthly payment volume from $3k-$10k
* 2.2% + $0.30 for all transactions for monthly payment volume from $10k - $100k
* 1.9% + $0.30 for all transactions for monthly payment volume over $100k
For Transactions < $10:
* 5.0% + $0.05 for all transactions
Getting Started
* The best way to learn about using Checkout by Amazon is to read the Getting Started Guide. It provides a step-by-step overview of what you'll need to do to incorporate Checkout by Amazon into your website.
* The Integration Guide provides additional detail regarding different options to integrate Checkout by Amazon. It contains step-by-step tutorials and multiple code samples to help you get integrated quickly.
* The Resource Center is a comprehensive directory of all the tools available to help you use Checkout by Amazon. It contains links to all Guides, FAQs, forums, and the Checkout by Amazon Sandbox to help you get started quickly!
[*] The Cart up-sell feature is scheduled for September 2008
[**] Fulfillment by Amazon (FBA) is a product sold by Amazon Services LLC.
What Your Customers See
1-Click Experience
Checkout by AmazonTM can often identify Amazon.com customers shopping on your website (before they login), and offer them the 1-Click® experience. When customers use their 1-Click® settings, they complete their purchase instantly and without leaving your website.
Express Lane Checkout Experience
When Checkout by Amazon identifies Amazon.com customers shopping on your website, and when these customers prefer not to use their 1-Click® settings, Checkout by Amazon offers them Express Lane checkout. This experience allows customers to see all the details of their order summary, and checkout in just two clicks without leaving your website.
Standard Checkout Experience
When Checkout by Amazon cannot identify a customer before login, it still provides a fast and convenient checkout experience at your website - the same secure and trusted checkout experience they enjoy at Amazon.com.
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30/7/2008 - 2500 Lost Heaps on Ebay Australia.....- Ebays Responses?
The gist of this is that a seller in Australia went belly up, and took off back to China - with lots of money.
This article is in TWO parts.
The first is an interview with DANIEL FEILER from Ebay in Australia, and it's interesting to see how he bullshits his way through everything...
The second interview, is with Fuzzy Hobbit and others, who appear to have a very good grasp of how the game is played, and who knows how to kick heads.
Separately each article in interesting...... but when you put them together.... Mmmmmm Mmmmmm !
The question is not how full of shit DANIEL FEILER is, it's how much shit can you shovel......
If I were you, I'd be swapping the shovel for a front end loader.... - that way at least you won't get buried in it.
PART 1.
ABC Online
PM - eBay buyers distraught as major seller in liquidation
[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2008/s2318130.htm]
PM - Tuesday, 29 July , 2008 18:04:00
Reporter: Donna Field
MARK COLVIN: Thousands of buyers on the online shopping and auction service, eBay have had their fingers burnt, with one of the biggest Australian sellers being placed in liquidation.
But people who bought goods from the Queensland-based company with eBay's preferred payment option will be assured of a refund.
Industry analysts say that the move will cost PayPal more than $1-million.
But those who didn't use PayPal will have a much harder time getting their money back.
Donna Field reports.
DONNA FIELD: ebusiness-supplies was one of eBay's biggest sellers, turning over $15-million last financial year, selling products as diverse as vibrating armchairs, electric guitars, children's motorbikes and universal remote controls.
But the Brisbane-based operation is now being liquidated and 2,500 customers have been left waiting for their goods.
eBay spokesman, Daniel Feiler, says while he can't comment on specific businesses that trade on the website, ebusiness-supplies has posted information telling its customers it's having some business issues.
DANIEL FEILER: The overwhelming majority of transactions on eBay are trouble free.
(Yeah yeah Yeah - trotting out the same old bullshit)
I think what we're seeing here is and as stated by the seller themself is a business issue, and unfortunately that is a sad fact that can happen to businesses whether they're on eBay or off eBay.
DONNA FIELD: The liquidators investigating ebusiness-supplies say the company is blaming an agent in Hong Kong for failing to provide a container full of goods.
Queensland Police is already investigating 12 allegations of fraud in relation to ebusiness-supplies and other states are expected to follow.
But there's some good news for people who bought from ebusiness-supplies. eBay's preferred payment method, PayPal, has agreed to refund their customers.
PayPal Australia's managing director is Andrew Pipolo:
ANDREW PIPOLO: We're actually not liable for it but it's something that, because of the circumstances of this particular seller, the impact on such a large number of buyers, we've made the decision to make a fund available to cover the expense.
DONNA FIELD: That exact amount is likely to be more than $1-million.
eBay's Daniel Feiler says the website urges people to use secure payment methods.
DANIEL FEILER: The advice that we give anybody that is using eBay is, get to know your seller, check the feedback that's a good indication of the reputation, that's the online reputation mechanism that eBay uses.
(These ebay people are like parrots - all spouting the same lines)
Secondly use a sensible, safe payment method. We recommend people use PayPal and finally check the safe trading guidelines that are available on ebay.com.au.
DONNA FIELD: But PayPal isn't for everybody.
Industry analyst and director of Taylored Web Services, Brendan Sinclair, says it's quite unpopular.
BRENDAN SINCLAIR: The problem is that people don't want to use PayPal some of the time because a lot of people think PayPal sucks and there's actually a website set up called PayPalSucks where there's lots of horror stories of PayPal not providing the seller with their money and causing all sorts of problems between buyers and sellers.
So people don't want to be forced into a situation where they have to use one particular one, they want have options, but with those other options comes risk.
ANDREW PIPOLO: He says eBay has a vested interest in people using PayPal because it owns the company and the ebusiness-supplies example is a way to encourage further use of PayPal.
BRENDAN SINCLAIR: And all these guys who have lost money on eBay now will obviously be upset. And they'll be particularly upset now because eBay goes we're going to refund everyone who's used PayPal, because there's a level of protection afforded it and people who haven't, who've paid via EFT (electronic funds transfer) or direct deposit or cheques or whatever are going to miss out.
ANDREW PIPOLO: The liquidators say people who used credit cards may also have some recourse to a refund. They're holding a creditors meeting early next month and all ebusiness-supplies customers will be notified by email.
And while eBay won't comment on specific sellers, spokesman Daniel Feiler says it's safe to say that action has been taken to stop ebusiness-supplies from further trade.
DANIEL FEILER: We can limit their account and reach out to educate them and try to get them to do the right thing, all the way through to suspending their account so they can't do any more activity, all the way through to proactively raising this with law enforcement and we do that regularly.
MARK COLVIN: eBay spokesman, Daniel Feiler, ending that report from Donna Field.
PART 2.
ITWIRE
http://www.itwire.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19711
&Itemid=1103&limit=1&limitstart=0&mosmsg=Thanks+for+your+vote%21
eBay rebels accuse eBay/PayPal over EBS fund “cover up”
One of the major sellers on eBay has gone belly up, leaving many customers in the lurch. eBay says it will refund people who purchased with PayPal, even though it is not obliged to do so, but will leave everyone else in the cold. An eBay rebel says it could be a “cover up” and has explained why.
eBay rebel “fuzzy-hobbit” (of no relation to me or the Fuzzy Logic blog) has posted a claim that eBay’s action in decided to refund PayPal purchases of items from the EBS (ebusiness-supplies) merchant on eBay could be a "cover up".
iTWire has received a copy of this claim and its reasoning, as well as information about the claim's location at the eBay Forums.
The information sent to iTWire is reprinted here with permission in italics:
“STOP PRESS: EBS/PAYPAL SAGA-SPECIAL FUND TO AVOID COURT ACTION?
“I'm no expert, but it looks to me like the so-called special fund to reimburse buyers who lost their PayPal payments is an ebay cover up job.
“Check this logic (evidence also appended below):
- PayPal only permits pre sales if the seller guarantees delivery within 20 days.
- However, EBS advertised all their products as ready for dispatch in 30 days.
- So looks like EBS listings were all in breach of PayPal terms and should not have been allowed by ebay to offer PayPal. (How long has ebay allowed EBS to do this?)
- Put another way (a rather messy way), PayPal seems to have no obligation to EBS to provide PayPal Buyer Protection.
- But how would unsuspecting ebay buyers know this - afterall the EBS listings all displayed the PayPal Buyer Protection logo?
- And furthermore, would these same unsuspecting buyers also know that the many quads and bikes that EBS listed were in the Vehicles category (Cars, Bikes, Boats) and thus are specifically excluded from the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy?
- Maybe .... I hear you say, but then the quads and bikes would be covered by ebay's Vehicle Purchase Protection policy, surely? Please?
- Unfortunately, probably not. ebay's Vehicle Protection Policy states that the "The car must be in Australia". And lets not forget, the reason the quad or bike is so cheap to start with is because its not here yet - its somewhere between China and Australia because ebay has allowed it to be pre-sold .... for years.
“But of course every mum and dad ebayer who wanted to buy a quad or bike for their kids will of course ignore the prominent PayPal Buyer Protection Policy logo plastered on every one of EBS listings. Surely they would have, wouldn't they? Please?
“Of course, every mum and dad ebayer will have spent days reconciling the inconsistencies between the PayPal User Agreement, the Ebay User Agreement and that third thing called a fair commercial agreement which complied fully with the consumer legislation of Australia.
“Sadly, but no. For they are just ordinary, honest, trusting mums and dads.
“Now I know why ebay and PayPal are moved to buy off these unlucky mums and dads and keep this whole debacle out of the courts.
“Shame on you ebay. Shame on you PayPal.”
”From PayPal Conditions
“Question : Does PayPal permit transactions for pre-sale items? :: Pre-sale items are advertised for sale before the seller has the items. Often, these items are sold before they are available to the general public. Or, the seller uses the funds from the sale to purchase the item that has already been sold.
“Answer : PayPal permits pre-sales on a limited basis, only if the seller guarantees delivery within 20 days from the date of purchase and clearly identifies the item as a pre-sale. PayPal may apply additional conditions, such as proof of the seller's ability to successfully deliver the product: supplier information, purchase invoices, postal information or proof of delivery.
“From a Typical EBS Listing :
“THIS IS A PRE-SALE / PRE-ORDER AUCTION
“(Your item will be dispatched within 30 days of the Auction End Date)
“WHY? -
“We have ordered container loads of bikes straight from the manufacturer and to save on costs we want to ship to you directly from the unloading docks therefore minimizing cost of warehouse storage cost in Australia
“We are offering Pre-Order / Pre-Sales to save you money and to stay competitive!
“HOW? -
“If we were to have container loads of these stored, we would require a huge warehouse and machinery. This will then lead to a higher cost for us and directly affect the price of the product.”
IS IT SAFE?
“Absolutely! We have been trading online since 2003 and had grown from a home based business to a company with our own offices and warehouse premises. We also have the opportunity to provide consumers a safer trading environment if you choose to pay via PayPal. They provide a Buyer Protection Program.
“HOW DO I BUY PRESALE ?
“Simply make your payment within 1 week of the Auction End Date
“(if your auction ended January 1, make payment by January 7)
- Your item will be dispatched within 30 days of the Auction End Date (if your auction ended January 1 your item will be dispatched by January 30) We will make you aware once your item has arrived and been dispatched from our warehouse.
“From PayPal Buyer Protection Policy
“4. Eligibility Requirements.
“In order for you to be considered for eligibility for the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy, all of the following requirements must be met:
“Purchase an eligible item. Your purchase must be for a tangible, physical good that can be shipped or delivered.
“However, the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy does not apply to the following items in the following circumstances:
• all cars, including vehicles which are covered by eBay’s "Vehicle Purchase Protection", available on www.ebay.com.au,
“From Vehicle Purchase Protection
“Buy a car with confidence on eBay Motors
“Buying a car is a major purchase and we want to provide you with the peace of mind you need to buy with confidence on eBay Motors. eBay Motors strongly advises you to only buy a car that is eligible for the Vehicle Purchase Protection program. The Vehicle Purchase Protection program can protect you from fraud or misrepresentation for up to $20,000 in the unlikely event that something should go wrong with your transaction*.
Check out our guide on how to avoid picking a lemon. Learn more
Make Sure You're Covered
5 Things You Must Do To Qualify For Vehicle Purchase Protection
1.…..
2. The Car must be in Australia
If the car is located overseas and the seller promises to ship it to you, it will not be covered by Vehicle Purchase Protection and we would advise you not to proceed with the purchase. Cars located within Australia but in another state can be covered if all other eligibility criteria are met. The car must have been listed on the Australian eBay website (ebay.com.au).
3, 4, 5.
The claim ends here. However... there is an interesting follow up post among several now listed.
A reponse to the claim that eBay and PayPal could be engaging in a cover up is also listed at the eBay forum, in italics:
It comes from an eBay member called “shortjack” and is as follows, in italics:
“So clearly all these buyers were ripped off before they pressed the 'bid' button. Ebay failed to ensure that it's pre sale sellers adhere to the buyer protection policy etc, and in turn, the buyers cop it sweet.
“So, in this example, it really wouldn't have mattered how the buyers paid or whether they used Paypal on the premise of Ebay's widespread propaganda.
“When is a duck not a duck? when it's a turkey.
“This is just a another Ebay generated farce, and I can see the logic in setting up a voluntary compo fund, because if this went to court, guess who would be left holding the bag of causality and negligence?
“Whilst compo is offered, the damage suits are quelled and the matter can't get into a court. Simple damage control, just like the holiday scam.
“So typical.”
The eBay saga shows no sign of eNding... anytime soon.
If you have the brains, the time and the know how, to weave your way through all the intricacies and traps and fine print - and contradictions in Ebays policies and how sleazy they are....
Like a louse trying to thead it's way through a birds nest.
Everything to do with Ebay and it's management, smacks of bullshit...
Ebays 2 faced payout, is nothing more than a cheap PR stunt to cover their tracks.
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30/7/2008 - Yeahhh Ebay is a Trafficker of Pirated Software and Cheap FAKES.
Ebays track record for flogging tons of counterfeit goods, and doing NOTHING about stopping them goes back a long wayyyyyyy....
Way way way way - back in the dark ages... I read blogs / forums detailing how Ebay was shit canning the small sellers for "worthless EBAY infringments" and yet they were doing absolutely nothing about LARGE volume sellers, who were Flogging Pirated software and FAKE goods....
The general opinion was that Ebay really didn't give a fuck about who was buying what, or who was selling what on their website, as long as the sales volume were high.....
Crooks were selling container loads of the crap, people were getting ripped off and burnt, and the people who manage Ebay were getting a cut of the action - and doing nothing to stop the sales.....
To jump forward a few years in time to 2005 - and then jump forward another 3 years.. and nothing has changed.
Ebay is STILL flogging tons of pirated software and cheap fakes - and they are still fucking around the law enforcement authorities in lots of different countries and they are still dragging their arses about pulling the auctions... and they are still raking in the cash and doing nothing except lying to YOU the consumer, that they are a trustworthy company....
Read Article A - then Article B -
Two different News papers,
Two different countries,
Several different Law Enforcement Authorites -
Several years apart.
Article A - December 2005.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4533154.stm
Last Updated: Sunday, 18 December 2005, 17:11 GMT 
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EBay blames users for fraud
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By Matthew Chapman
BBC Radio Five Live
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The online auctioneer eBay has admitted that personal accounts are being hijacked by fraudsters, but claims it is the responsibility of eBay users themselves to prevent this.
eBay is by far the world leader in online auctions
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Criminals are obtaining the secret passwords of eBay subscribers and using their sites to conduct bogus auctions for non-existent goods.
In a growing number of cases, would-be buyers on the UK's most used website are paying thousands of pounds to apparently reputable sellers after winning auctions on the site, only to find out they had been dealing with criminals.
In an interview with Radio Five Live, eBay would not reveal exactly how many accounts had been hijacked.
"It is just not a number we give out as a business. We consider it to be business sensitive for various reasons," said Gareth Griffiths, head of trust and safety for eBay.
Sensitive issue
In one recent case up to 10 people are thought to have paid a total of £15,000 for non-existent hot tubs, while another would-be buyer thought he had purchased a £4,000 pound camper van which turned out not to exist.
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 It gets to the point where that is obstructive to our inquiry 
Ruth Taylor, North Yorkshire Trading Standards
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In both cases eBay accounts had been hijacked to sell off the non existent goods.
The hijacking of sites is a particularly sensitive issue for the auction site, which relies to a large degree on the level of trust between the buyer and seller of goods for its success.
There are more than three million items for sale on the site at any one time.
Tools provided
EBay blames account holders for not installing proper security on their home computers and for replying to so called phishing e-mails.
The auction site says its users are often to blame for security breaches
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These are fake e-mails made to look like official eBay messages and which demand the secret passwords to users' accounts.
Viruses are also said to be infecting home computers by installing themselves inside hard drives where they monitor the keystrokes of eBay users.
The viruses then make a record of secret passwords before sending them on to the fraudsters.
Describing it as an "off eBay issue", Mr Griffiths said "we have told people again and again".
"It is nothing really to do with us. We provide you with tools to help yourself."
When asked whether eBay's own computer could have been compromised, Mr Griffiths insisted that eBay's "systems are completely robust".
In both cases examined by the BBC, the eBay users who had their accounts hijacked claimed to be computer literate and vehemently denied that they had replied to phishing e-mails.
"There is no way I would have done that," said Dr Oliver Sutcliffe, a biochemist from Nottingham.
His site was hijacked over the space of one weekend to sell thousands of pounds' worth of electrical goods.
Obstructive delays
EBay is also under fire from law enforcement officials and manufacturers over levels of crime on the site and the levels of cooperation they receive.
Many big brands are far from happy with eBay's response
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Trading standards officers who regularly investigate crimes perpetrated on the site have accused eBay of being "obstructive" in the way it responds to requests for information.
North Yorkshire Trading Standards says eBay can take up to two months to provide the names and addresses of suspects it is pursuing.
"If it takes up to two months then it is eating into a lot of time that we have to make prosecutions," said Ruth Taylor who heads the authority's special investigations unit.
"It gets to the point where that is obstructive to our inquiry."
Satisfaction level
Concerns have also been raised about the large amount of counterfeit goods on sale on eBay.
Adidas told the BBC that it monitored up to 12,000 auctions involving its goods every day on the British site, yet it estimated that up to 40% of all Adidas products available were counterfeit.
EBay says it has a special relationship with brand owners who can notify the site of auctions involving counterfeit goods, which will then be taken down within hours.
(Note this bit)
*** However, the Ben Sherman clothing brand says it recently took eBay five days to take down an auction of counterfeit clothing by which time much of it had been sold.
"I think one must say that it's highly unsatisfactory," said Barry Ditchfield, Ben Sherman's brand protection manager.
"With all the amount of profits that eBay makes, then there is ample scope for additional staff.
"Frankly, it is totally unsatisfactory, not just for Ben Sherman but for all brand holders."
EBay rejected the accusations, saying that the company had a good relationship with law enforcement officials.
"The satisfaction level is generally very high," said Mr Griffiths.
"Generally speaking, we provide a good service that people are pretty happy with."
Five Live Report: Policing eBay can be heard on Radio Five Live at 1930GMT on Sunday 18 December or afterwards at the Five Live Report website.
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Article B - July 2008
http://www.internetnews.com/security/article.php/3761501/Software+Assoc+Goes+to+War+on+Piracy.htm
Software Assoc. Goes to War on Piracy
Lawsuits planned as industry association looks to sellers on sites other than eBay.
July 25, 2008
By Kenneth Corbin:  More stories by this author:
In the murky online trade of pirated software, eBay may be the biggest marketplace, but it's not the only one.
As it moves to more aggressively combat illegal sales of knockoff software, the Software Information and Industry Association (SIIA) plans to begin filing lawsuits against sellers operating on several of the smaller auction sites on the Web, according to Scott Bain, the association's litigation counsel who handles online auctions.
Bain told InternetNews.com that the SIIA expects to issue its first lawsuits against non-eBay auction sellers in the coming weeks. Many eBay competitors have software categories on their sites, such as Overstock Auctions, ePier and eBid. Bain declined to name the sites that SIIA has been talking with, but emphasized that they have generally been cooperative.
"We've had some very positive discussions and interactions with the competitors to eBay," Bain told InternetNews.com. "So far, we haven't filed any suits against those auction listings, but we're ramping up activity in that area."
The SIIA's expansion of its litigation against individual sellers comes as the association is becoming increasingly exasperated with eBay for not doing enough to keep pirated software of its own marketplace.
(I hate to interject - but Ebay doesn't do FUCK ALL)
On behalf of its members, which include large software makers such as Oracle, Adobe and Apple, SIIA has filed and won lawsuits against dozens of eBay sellers, but Bain said the group is considering legal action against eBay itself.
"We've been trying to work with eBay and offer many different suggestions," Bain said. "Very few if any of those have been adopted."
In their annual study of the economic impact, the Business Software Alliance and research firm IDC estimated that piracy cost the global software industry $48 billion in 2007.
The SIIA has asked eBay to sell it ad space on the software-listing pages where it would warn about piracy, but Bain said eBay refused. Also denied was the group's request that eBay bar the sale of software through its "Buy It Now" feature.
"The vast majority of the software sold in the Buy It Now feature is pirated," Bain said. "The ones using the Buy It Now feature are the ones trying to fence their goods as quickly as possible."
eBay, which did not respond to request for comment for this story, maintains a "fraud engine," an automated tool programmed with more than 13,000 rules to patrol the marketplace in search of fake goods.
(13,000 rules? This is like using fly wire fishing nets and finding alligators going through the holes - then toss in the amazingly interesting attitude of the management of Ebay letting the sales on, and then really really dragging their arses to pull the fake auctions off the site - well at least till after all the stuff is sold - after having been notified by the police and companies... )
eBay also gives trademark and copyright owners the chance to report fraudulent merchandise through its Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program.
Bain said that the SIIA uses that feature regularly, and that eBay is generally responsive to its takedown requests, but the merchandise is not removed immediately.
*** Bain said that a large amount of pirated software is sold in the gaps between the issuance of a takedown request and the actual removal of the listing.
(Haven't I read all this somewhere before????)
While his group's dealings with eBay have been "cordial," Bain said that "over time we've been discouraged by the inaction."
Still, the suits against sellers on eBay rivals will likely come before any litigation is brought against eBay.
"I don't mean it to sound like we're sitting here drafting a case because we're not," he explained.
The issue of eBay's responsibility for the authenticity of the goods on its marketplace recently went through a legal test, when a federal judge ruled that the online auctioneer was not required to police its site for counterfeit goods in a case brought by luxury jewelry maker Tiffany.
"The court is not unsympathetic to Tiffany and other rights owners who have invested enormous resources in developing their brands, only to see them illicitly and efficiently exploited by others on the Internet," U.S. District Court judge Richard Sullivan wrote in his opinion. "Nevertheless, the law is clear: it is the trademark owner's burder to police its mark, and companies like eBay cannot be held liable for trademark infringement based solely on their generalized knowledge that trademark infringement might be occurring on their Web sites."
That verdict followed two similar cases in Europe where the courts both ruled against eBay.
Though Bain said that the Tiffany outcome was not a "positive result," it doesn't necessarily short-circuit any litigation the SIIA might pursue.
For starters, he pointed out it was only one judge's opinion in a bench trial, and that it would likely be appealed to Circuit Court.
Second, Tiffany was going after eBay on trademark infringement, whereas any case that the SIIA might file would be based on copyright law, with the relevant statues found in the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA).
Should the SIIA move ahead with litigation against eBay but fail to convince a judge that it violated the DMCA, Bain said his group's next step would be to appeal to Congress to update the 10-year-old copyright law's Safe Harbor provision to address the role of auction sites in the pirated-software trade.
The Management of Ebay
Scumbags Everybody
I always find it interesting when a HUGE company, stands over small sellers and closes their auctions immediately, for saying, "Despite what Ebay says, I don't take payment by Paypal, because I don't have a Paypal account..." or they stand over small people in their small disputes.... and suspend their accounts just like that....
And yet, when trademark owners and the Cops say to Ebay, "These folks are selling millions and millions of dollars worth of fake goods and pirated software - shut them down"....
The management of Ebay, may get around it eventually - but only after all the stuff is sold - onto unsuspecting consumers.
And the management of Ebay - have been doing this for as long as I can remember....
And despite all of Ebays magnificent "scanning technology", and despite the complaints and despite the courts and despite the police etc..
Somehow, the people who manage Ebay are not managing to even try and get on top of it....
Funny about that - isn't it.
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27/7/2008 - This is an example of how Ebay pulls peoples "no paypal" listings:
This is an example of how Ebay pulls peoples listings, for saying,
"I don't accept pPaypal" - despite Ebay shoving "YOU OUGHT TO BE or ACTUALLY ARE USING PAYPAL" adds and threats down peoples throats...
When people (sellers) inform the buying public that they don't accept Paypal - contrary to Ebays standover merchant antics....
Ebay then pulls their listings and keeps the money for the listing.
This is a REAL copy of an actual Ebay email, telling the seller, they have removed the sellers listings.
Some details have been obscured:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Hello (seller on Ebay Site)
We appreciate that you chose eBay to list the following listing(s):
Big Number - Item
Big Number - Item
Big Number - Item
Big Number - Item
Big Number - Item
However, your listing was in violation of eBay's policy and has been removed from eBay. We notified members who placed bids on the item that the listing has been canceled. We would like to take this opportunity to let you know what part of your listing is not permitted.
Your listing(s) contains the following information:
DESPITE WHAT EBAY CLAIM IN MY LISTINGS, I DO NOT HAVE A PAYPAL ACCOUNT.
DO NOT PAY WITH PAYPAL!!
I ACCEPT BANK DEPOSITS ONLY.
Your listing(s) may be eligible for relisting through My eBay. If so you'll see the listing in your Unsold Items page within My eBay. Those that are not eligible for relisting will not be visible in the Unsold Items page.
To relist your item, sign in to My eBay, go to your Unsold items and select the item that was cancelled. (It's highlighted with a yellow banner.) Before relisting, please make any changes necessary to ensure that your listing is in compliance with the law and eBay policies.
You might want to check your other listings for similar violations."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is an example of just how corrupt and untrustworthy the management of Ebay actually ARE.
One - just ONE of the really slimy actions by this company was to apply to the ACCC to get an exemption to the Trade Practices Act, to allow them to FORCE everyone to use Paypal and ONLY Paypal for all financial transactions....
No credit cards, No Direct Deposits, No Money Orders....
It's Ebays way or hit the highway - and they shove your business out into the wilderness - where you and your family will die - or so they lead you to believe...
Ebay in a simplistic sense, stood to at least double the takings on all transactions.. by gouging even more of the profit from the sellers and buyers transaction.
The listing fees, the final value (sale) fees AND then the Paypal TRANSACTION fees and the Paypal account withdrawl fees.
The management of Ebay lost this application MOST severely - with 99.99% of the over 700+ objectors writing in and complaining "most vehmently" against Ebays application for an exemption.
And now the management of Ebay are forcing everyone to use Paypal anyway, by advertising it on their Auction listing - whether they use or accept payment by Paypal or not.
When people say "Only pay me via bank deposit, because I don't take payment via Paypal, because I don't have a Paypal Account" - and Ebay falsely advertises that they do....
The Management of Ebay remove the listing, and then steals the sellers money for the listing, from them.
If you are or were a seller using Ebay in Australia, I'd advise you to contact the ACCC, your states Fair Trading / Consumer rights dept., and have a look at the Trade Practices Act and the Fair Trading act.
Keep records of emails and screen shots of all the action and file it away.
An excellent product to make webpages into PDF documents, is called:
PDF creator - it prints from the browser (Fire Fox = Yay) to file - a PDF file - the whole webpage on an A4 sized document.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/
http://www.linux.com/feature/59229
http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Archiving/Indexed-PDF-Creator-1071.shtml
You may have a very real opportunity to take Ebay through a tribunal or join in a class action for things like breach of contract, Unfair Terms and Conditions, false advertising etc.
I do not know what all of the laws are in all the states in Australia, but I do know that Victoria has a section in it's Fair Trading Act - on Unfair terms and Conditions.
They are unlawful to impose upon people - that is just for starters...
Go here:
http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/
At the bottom of the page are some links:
"Resource Center"===> LEGISLATION
Search this:
Fair Trading Act
Version No. 036
Fair Trading Act 1999
No. 16 of 1999
Version incorporating amendments as at 1 July 2008
Version incorporating amendments as at 1 July 2008
TABLE OF PROVISIONS
Section Page
PART 1—PRELIMINARY 1
1 Purposes 1
2 Commencement 2
3 Definitions 2
4 Representations as to future matters 10
5 Crown bound 11
6 Extra-territorial application of this Act 11
PART 2—UNFAIR PRACTICES 12
7 Unconscionable conduct within the meaning of the unwritten
law 12
8 Unconscionable conduct 12
8A Unconscionable conduct in business transactions 14
8B The price for a supply or acquisition, or possible supply or
acquisition 19
9 Misleading or deceptive conduct 21
10 Misleading conduct in relation to goods 21
11 Misleading conduct in relation to services 22
12 False representations in relation to goods and services 22
13 False representations in relation to employment 24
14 False testimonials 24
15 Cash price to be stated in certain circumstances 25
16 Offering gifts and prizes 25
17 Bait advertising 26
18 Referral selling 27
19 Accepting payment without being able to supply as ordered 28
20 Misleading representations about certain business activities 29
21 Harassment and coercion 30
22 Pyramid selling 31
23 Unsolicited prescribed cards 33
24 Right to payment for unsolicited goods or services 36
24A Right to payment for goods or services not supplied 36
Section Page
ii
25 Liability of recipient of unsolicited goods 37
26 Liability of recipient of unsolicited services 39
27 Right to payment for unauthorised entries or advertisements 39
28 When right to payment deemed to be asserted 42
29 Address to be included in documents 43
30 Mock auctions 45
31 Simplification of proof 46
32 Publications which are not prohibited 47
PART 2A—IMPLIED CONDITIONS AND WARRANTIES IN
CERTAIN CONTRACTS OF SUPPLY 48
Division 1—Interpretation 48
32A Definitions 48
32B What are conditions and warranties? 49
32BA What are antecedent negotiations? 49
32C When is a person aware of a fact, matter or circumstance? 49
Division 2—Application of Part 50
32CA Application of Part 50
32D This Part applies to certain kinds of contracts 50
32DA This Part does not apply to certain kinds of contracts 51
32E How is cash price determined for contracts generally? 52
32EA How is cash price determined for leases of goods? 53
32EB Presumption that this Part applies to supply 54
32F Application of Part to mixed contracts 54
32FA Application of Goods Act 1958 to contracts of supply 54
Division 3—Supply of goods or services 55
32G Terms implied in contracts as to right to supply 55
32GA Transfer of limited interest in goods 56
32GB Terms implied in leases as to right to hire 57
32H Supply of goods by description 57
32HA Supply of goods by sample 58
32I Merchantable quality of goods supplied 59
32IA Fitness of goods for purpose 59
32J Implied conditions in supply of services 60
32JA Fitness of services for purpose 60
32K Supply of services by demonstration 61
32KA Terms implied in contracts of supply of both services and
goods 62
32KAB Certain agreements excluded 63
32L Contract cannot exclude this Part 63
32LA Contract cannot exclude liability for damages 64
32M Penalties for including void provisions 65
32MA Limitation of liability generally 65
Section Page
iii
32N Limitation of liability in relation to supply of recreational
services 67
32NA Exemption from waiver form requirement 70
32NB Supplier to have reasonable opportunity to make good title 71
32O Acceptance of goods 72
32OA Rescission for innocent misrepresentation 74
32P Discharge or rescission of contract of supply of goods 74
32PA When does a discharge or rescission have effect? 75
32Q Liability of supplier and person conducting antecedent
negotiations 76
32QA Indemnity for supplier or dealer 78
32R Certain contracts or provisions void 78
32RA Penalty for including void provision relating to antecedent
negotiations 79
Division 4—General 79
32S Implied terms do not negative express terms unless
inconsistent 79
32SA Limit of liability of guarantors 79
32T Limit of liability under security 82
32TA Contract of supply not illegal etc. 82
PART 2B—UNFAIR TERMS IN CONSUMER CONTRACTS 83
32U Definitions 83
32V Application of Part 84
32W What is an unfair term? 84
32X Assessment of unfair terms 84
32Y Effect of unfair term 85
32Z Offences relating to prescribed unfair terms 86
32ZA Injunctions to prevent continued use of unfair terms 86
32ZB Director may require the supply of information 87
32ZC Declaration by the Tribunal 88
32ZD Advisory opinion by the Tribunal 89
PART 2C—FRUSTRATED CONTRACTS 90
Division 1—Introductory 90
32ZE Definitions 90
32ZF Contracts to which this Part applies 90
Division 2—Consequences of frustration of contract 91
32ZG Adjustment of amounts paid or payable to parties to
discharged contracts 91
32ZH Court may allow amounts paid or payable to be recovered
or paid 91
32ZI Parties to pay an amount for valuable benefits obtained 92
Section Page
iv
32ZJ Calculation of expenses incurred 93
32ZK Circumstances in which amounts payable under contract of
insurance excluded 93
Division 3—General 94
32ZL Circumstances in which contract provisions continue to
have effect despite frustration 94
32ZM Performed part of contract not frustrated 94
32ZN Nature of action 95
32ZO Limitation period 95
PART 3—SAFETY AND INFORMATION REQUIREMENTS 96
Division 1—Safety standards 96
33 Offence to supply goods or services which do not comply with
safety standards 96
34 Prescribed safety standards 97
35 Interim ban order 97
36 Operation of interim ban order 98
37 Notice of order 99
38 Offence to contravene interim ban order 99
39 Permanent ban order or fixed term ban order made after
interim ban order 99
40 General power to make permanent ban order or fixed term
ban order 100
41 When does a permanent ban order or a fixed term ban order
take effect? 101
42 Notice of order 102
43 Revocation or amendment of permanent ban order or fixed
term ban order 102
44 Offence to contravene permanent ban order or fixed term ban
order 102
45 Loss, injury or damage arising from a contravention of this
Division 103
Division 2—Information standards 104
46 Offence to supply goods or services which do not comply
with information standards 104
47 Prescribed information standards 104
48 Loss, injury or damage arising from a contravention of this
Division 105
Division 3—Recall of goods 106
49 Notification of voluntary recall 106
50 Compulsory recall 107
51 Repair and replacement of goods 109
Section Page
v
52 Circumstances in which a refund may be reduced 109
53 Compliance with compulsory recall notice 110
54 Loss, injury or damage arising from contravention of this
Division 110
55 Requirement to notify persons outside Victoria 111
56 Certain actions not to affect insurance contracts 112
Division 4—Applications for review 113
57 Review of ban order or compulsory recall notice 113
Division 5—Warning notices 113
58 Warning notice to public 113
PART 4—OFF-BUSINESS-PREMISES SALES AND OTHER
SALES 115
Division 1—Introductory 115
59 Application 115
Division 2—Contact sales agreements 116
60 What is a contact sales agreement? 116
61 Requirements for contact sales agreements 118
62 Supplier must comply with requirements 119
62A Duty to obtain prior consent to visit 120
62B Duty not to remain on premises for long periods 122
62C Duty to leave premises 123
62D Duty to produce identification 123
62E Duty to inform 124
63 When can the purchaser cancel the agreement? 124
64 What is the effect of cancellation? 126
65 What must the supplier do on cancellation? 126
66 What can the supplier charge on cancellation? 127
67 What must the purchaser do on cancellation? 128
Division 2A—Telephone marketing agreements 128
67A What is a telephone marketing agreement? 128
67B Duty to cease telephone marketing 131
67C Permitted hours for telephone marketing 131
67D Purchaser must give explicit informed consent 132
67E Requirements for a telephone marketing agreement 134
67F Supplier must comply with requirements 136
67G When does a telephone marketing agreement commence? 136
67H When and how can the purchaser cancel the agreement? 137
67I What is the effect of cancellation? 138
67J What must the supplier do on cancellation? 139
Section Page
vi
67K What can the supplier charge on cancellation? 139
67L What must the purchaser do on cancellation? 140
67M What if the telephone marketing agreement is void for lack of
explicit informed consent? 141
Division 3—Non-contact sales agreements 142
68 What is a non-contact sales agreement? 142
68A Duty to cease telephone marketing for non-contact sales
agreement 143
69 Requirements for non-contact sales agreements 143
70 Supplier must comply with requirements 144
71 When can the purchaser cancel the agreement? 145
72 What is the effect of cancellation? 145
73 What must the supplier do on cancellation? 146
74 What can the supplier charge on cancellation? 146
75 What must the purchaser do on cancellation? 147
Division 4—General 147
76–78 Repealed 147
79 Trade-in not to be sold during cooling-off period 148
80 Prohibition on payment for services during cooling-off period 148
81 Certain provisions in agreements void 148
82 Recovery of money 149
PART 5—LAY-BY SALES 151
83 Statement of lay-by terms 151
84 Change of lay-by terms 152
84A Lay-by goods must be available 153
85 Cancellation of lay-by by purchaser 153
86 Cancellation of lay-by by supplier 154
87 Cancellation on breach by purchaser 155
88 Cancellation where business closes 156
89 Effect of cancellation of lay-by 156
90 Cancellation charge must not exceed a reasonable amount 158
91 Limits on supplier's remedies 159
92 Demands for early payment 159
93 Effect of contracting out 159
PART 5A—FAIR REPORTING 160
93A Definitions 160
93B Correction of errors 160
93C Consumer may apply to court where agent fails to correct
information etc. 161
93D Powers of Court on application 162
Section Page
vii
PART 6—CODES OF PRACTICE 164
94 Preparation of draft code of practice by the Director 164
95 Consideration of draft code of practice prepared by other
persons 164
96 Prescribing codes of practice 164
97 Offence to breach code of practice 165
PART 7—ADMINISTRATION 166
98 Director of Consumer Affairs Victoria 166
99 Staff 166
100 Functions and powers of the Director 166
101 Powers of delegation 168
102 Director's report 168
PART 8—POWERS OF DIRECTOR 169
Division 1—Disputes 169
103 Making a complaint 169
104 Conciliation and mediation 169
105 Powers of the Director in relation to proceedings on behalf of
consumers 170
106 Proceedings and costs 172
Division 2—Suppliers 174
106A Substantiation of claims 174
106B Show cause notice 175
Division 3—Licence suspension 177
106C Definitions 177
106D Director may suspend licence 178
106E Effect of suspension 180
106F Lapsing or continuation of suspension 182
106G Extension of period 183
106H Right of review 184
Division 4—Obtaining information, documents and evidence 184
106HA Power to obtain information and documents to monitor
compliance 184
106I Power to obtain information, documents and evidence 186
106J Powers in relation to documents 187
106K Copies of seized documents 188
106L Retention and return of seized documents 189
106M Magistrates' Court may extend 3 month period 189
106N Complaints 190
106O Service of documents 190
106P Confidentiality 191
Section Page
viii
PART 9—FUNCTIONS OF TRIBUNAL 192
107 What is a consumer and trader dispute? 192
107A What is a small claim? 192
108 Settlement of consumer and trader disputes or small claims 193
109 Additional powers of Tribunal 194
110 Who can ask the Tribunal to resolve a consumer and trader
dispute? 197
111 Exclusion of other jurisdiction 197
112 More appropriate forum 198
112A Small claim commenced in a court 199
112B Small Claims Suspense Account 200
113 Tribunal may hear dispute regardless of related criminal
proceedings 200
113A Tribunal may order the provision of information 201
PART 10—INSPECTION POWERS 202
114 Appointment of inspectors 202
115 Inspector's identity card 203
116 Production of identity card 203
117 Inspector may seek Court order 203
118 Requirement to produce information 205
119 Entry or search with consent 206
120 Entry of premises open to the public 209
121 Emergency entry 209
121A Entry without consent or warrant 212
122 Search warrants 214
123 Announcement before entry 216
124 Details of warrant to be given to occupier 217
125 Seizure of things not mentioned in the warrant 217
126 Embargo notice 218
126A Use or seizure of electronic equipment at premises 219
126B Monitoring compliance with embargo notices 220
127 Copies of seized documents 222
128 Retention and return of seized documents or things 222
129 Magistrates' Court may extend 3 month period 223
129A Court may order destruction of dangerous goods 224
130 Taking samples 225
131 Requirement to assist inspector during entry 225
132 Refusal or failure to comply with requirement 226
133 Protection against self-incrimination 226
134 Offence to give false or misleading information 226
135 Offence to hinder or obstruct inspector 227
136 Offence to impersonate inspector 227
137 Entry to be reported to the Director 227
Section Page
ix
138 Register of exercise of powers of entry 227
139 Complaints 228
140 Service of documents 228
141 Confidentiality 228
PART 11—ENFORCEMENT AND REMEDIES 230
Division 1—General enforcement provisions 230
142 Prosecutions of offences 230
142A Who can bring proceedings for offences? 230
143 Offences by bodies corporate 231
144 Conduct by officers, employees or agents 231
Division 2—Remedies and legal proceedings 233
145 Interpretation 233
146 Undertakings 234
147 Copy of undertaking 235
148 Register of undertakings 235
149 Injunctions to restrain conduct 236
149A Injunctions to do an act or thing 237
150 Interim injunctions 239
151 Power to rescind or vary injunctions 240
151A Cease trading injunctions 240
151B Interim cease trading injunctions 241
151C Power to rescind or vary cease trading injunctions 242
152 Undertakings as to damages and costs 242
152A Powers of court if requirement of Director or inspector
not complied with 243
153 Adverse publicity orders 243
154 Orders to prohibit payment of money or transfer of other
property 244
155 Defences 247
156 Evidence 249
157 Findings in proceedings to be evidence 249
158 Orders against persons found to have contravened this Act 250
159 Actions for damages 252
160 Awards of compensation 252
Division 3—Infringement notices 253
160A Power to serve a notice 253
160B Form of notice 253
160C–160H Repealed 254
Section Page
x
PART 12—MISCELLANEOUS 255
161 Supplier to give documents 255
161A Bills and receipts 255
162 Return of replaced parts to purchaser 257
162A Public warning statements 258
163 Consumer documents to be clear 259
163A Complaints etc. are privileged 260
164 Supreme Court—limitation of jurisdiction 260
165 Regulations 260
PART 13—REPEALS, SAVINGS AND TRANSITIONAL 263
166 Repeal of Fair Trading Act 1985 263
167 Repeal of Consumer Affairs Act 1972 263
168 Repeal of Ministry of Consumer Affairs Act 1973 263
169 Repeal of Market Court Act 1978 263
170 Savings and transitional provisions 263
__________________
SCHEDULES 264
SCHEDULE 1—Consumer Acts 264
SCHEDULE 2—Contact Sales Agreements/Telephone Marketing
Agreements 266
PART 1—NOTICE TO PURCHASER 266
PART 2—CANCELLATION NOTICE 267
SCHEDULE 3—Savings and Transitional 271
1 Superseded references 271
2 Actions commenced by Director or Secretary 271
3 Inspectors 272
4 Regulations 273
5 Orders 273
6 Superseded references to Director of Fair Trading and Office
of Fair Trading and Business Affairs 273
7 Actions commenced by Director 274
8 Superseded references 274
9 Actions commenced by Director 275
10 Validation of ban orders 275
11 Continuation of existing small claims 276
13 Transitional—references to the Frustrated Contracts
Act 1959 277
═══════════════
Section Page
xi
ENDNOTES 278
1. General Information 278
2. Table of Amendments 279
3. Explanatory Details 282
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25/7/2008 - There are ONLY 15 people working in Paypal in Australia!
This was a real eye opener......
Re the previous post - Ebay Sellers and Buyers forming a lynch mob for the arseholes who run Ebay.
”We are having significant difficulty with eBay and the methods that they are using to force PayPal (a wholly owned eBay company) as the default method of payment by our customers for the goods that they purchase from us.
“According to the annual report of PayPal for 2007 they have just 15 staff in Australia. This does not make for very good customer support or inspire confidence in users that they can get problems responded to in a timely manner.
Paypal actually offering Customer Support?
My first question is -
"What customer support?"
I would have thought they would have been too busy licking each others arses and bullying their slaves in India to make them even more money..... than to actually give any customer support at all.
"Yes Indian Slaves, to show you how magnificent we are, we will generously "allow" you to work an extra 10 hours a day on top of your 18 hour shift, and to show you our appreciation, we will cut your food rations from 1/3 of a bowl of rice, to 1/4 of a bowl of rice per day - and now - you can earn 2 x as much for us, because you won't waste time ever sleeping or eating to excess."
Yay Ebay.
But a whole 15 people.... Lemme see?
You need:
One Person to call security - on all the hundreds of satisfied customers that come to the locked and bolted - armor plate front security door.
One Person to wash the dishes.
One Person to sweep the floors.
One Person to take the lunch orders.
One Person to do the office sweep.
One Person to open up and close up.
One Person to pay the bills.
One Person to take the mail.
One Person to mark it all - "Return to Sender".
One Person to take all the mail back down the post office.
One Person to make the cups of tea.
One Person to get the news papers and magazines.
One Person to organise days at the race track.
One Person to organise the lunch and after work drinks.
So that leaves ONE Person to reply to the emails and
One Person to answer the phone.
So Paypal only have 2 people providing customer service to 5 million people in Australia..
Unless someone is off sick..... and no one can fill in for them, because - "it's not their job".
My own personal experiences with the people who DO work in Ebay in Australia - all they did was LIE to me about every - fucking - thing...
Here is a fun scenario for you - imagine this.
OK HUGE flat plain - dead flat, from horizon to horizon - with nothing anywhere.....
Except - about 50 meters away - is a SINGLE huge tree.
Ok wayyyyyyy off in the distance, comes a car... nothing else.
There is one person in the car... driving it, actually - and no one else...
And they barrel along at a great rate of knots, and "Whambo" into the tree they crash.....
So after seeing this - and seeing no other people escaping the crash, or exiting the car, or ducking under the dashboard... nothing....
One runs over and says to the person kind of slumped over the steering wheel - "Are you OK?"
The first thing they say is, "Ohhhh - Oh - it wasn't me driving".
That is the sort of "stupid cunt" type of lying the people in Ebay in Australia - did to me;
"Noooo the junkie climbing out my bedroom window with my TV under the arm, isn't stealing from me, Nooooooooo - they found it out on the street and are putting it back for me..... "
Yeahhhhh - fuck I believe that too.
Paypal are my friends....
They are only looking after my best interests - Honest - Just ask Ebay's Trust and Safety department......
Well if you could find their unlisted email address, phone number and street address - you could ask them.
And as far as I can tell, the people in Ebay lie bare faced and outright, without even so much as batting a fucking eyelid - to everyone else in Australia - and the rest of the planet too....
As far as what I recall, doesn't the Ebay / Paypal spin go something like this?
"Oh we are making the switch to Paypal only transactions because it's much more safer and secure and we really are listening to the members of OUR ebay community - it's what THEY want."
(never mind it rakes in at least 2 x the fees - per sale)
"And most importantly - We are doing it - because we're your friends".
And they are doing it with only 15 people for 5 million consumers?
Sorry I meant:
"And they are doing it with only 2 people for 5 million consumers?"
Yeah - like fuck they are......
LOL -
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24/7/2008 - eBay rebels take PayPal issue to the Reserve Bank of Australia
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/19563/1103/1/0/
eBay rebels take PayPal issue to the Reserve Bank of Australia
by Alex Zaharov-Reutt
Tuesday, 22 July 2008
Page 1 of 5
!
The rebellion against eBay’s PayPal saga with its disputed “stage 1” and “stage 2” episodes with the ACCC, has seen the rebels write to Australian Banks, Australia Post and threaten legal action. Now they’ve turning it up another notch by writing to Reserve Bank of Australia!
iTWire has again received information from eBay buyers and sellers unhappy with eBay’s attempts to force its PayPal payments system onto eBay users.
This latest action follows the investigation of legal proceedings against eBay Australia, letters written to Australian Banks inquiring about the safety of the Direct Deposit Payment Method and writing to Australia Post to enquire about the safety of the Money Order.
Here is the information we received, quoted in full, in italics:
“STOP PRESS: EBAY MEMBERS REQUEST RESERVE BANK TO REIGN IN EBAY & PAYPAL
“eBay members will be excited by a significant new development in the quest to terminate eBay's ability to force all sellers to offer PayPal as a payment option, to ensure that PayPal's operations and financial safety become regulated by the appropriate authorities in this country, and to ensure that eBay members have the choice to pass on Pay Pal fees to their buyers.
“All of the other means of paying for eBay purchases are governed by Australian Law and the protocols and standards that apply with the exception of PayPal. They, through eBay, are forcing themselves on us and dictating how we will interact with our customers. The steps we have taken are designed to break this pattern of behaviour and return real choice to eBay members.
“Appended below is a copy of a letter sent by the group to the Chairman of the Payments System Board ("PSB") of the Reserve Bank of Australia ('RBA").
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“Mr Glenn Stevens
Chairman, Payments System Board
Reserve Bank of Australia
GPO Box 3947
SYDNEY NSW 2001
AUSTRALIA
“I represent a group of people who use the on line auction platform eBay to buy and sell goods. Some off us are reasonable size sellers while others are very small scale and yet others are principally buyers. In recent days we have conducted a number of campaigns via the eBay discussion boards, on the matters contained in this letter, and have garnered a high level of support.”
”We are having significant difficulty with eBay and the methods that they are using to force PayPal (a wholly owned eBay company) as the default method of payment by our customers for the goods that they purchase from us.
“According to the annual report of PayPal for 2007 they have just 15 staff in Australia. This does not make for very good customer support or inspire confidence in users that they can get problems responded to in a timely manner.
“Among other tactics; eBay has made their payment page into an advertisement for PayPal that gives the impression that there is only one way of paying. To pay by other than PayPal a buyer must search out the links and they are difficult to find.
“Throughout the site eBay portrays PayPal as the only safe payment method and inferring that all other methods are unsafe. Further, this message is reinforced through media advertising and statements in media interviews.
“They advertise a Buyer Protection scheme for PayPal that is entirely illusory. Protection in the form of reimbursement of lost funds is only forthcoming if PayPal can recover it from the Seller.
“They cancel people’s sales if they indicate a preference for payment by any means other than PayPal. Although they demand that, in order to prove that a seller has sent the goods, we must use Registered Post, they prohibit us from requiring that the buyer pays for that Registered Post. They cancel people's sales if they offer an incentive for people to pay by means other than PayPal.
“Over the last 6-9 months eBay has suffered a series of computer “glitches” that have seen sellers Bank Details disappear from the payment system virtually forcing people away from paying by Bank Deposit. These supposed glitches impact large numbers of sellers and are widely reported in online discussion forums both on eBay and elsewhere.
“We are concerned that, unlike other payment systems used in transactions away from eBay, (credit card transactions) we are not permitted, by eBay, to pass on the additional charges that apply to the seller when a buyer uses PayPal to pay for goods purchased on the site.
“We are concerned that PayPal is not a signatory to the EFT Code of Practice.
“We are concerned that eBay is using its strength to force buyers away from alternatives to PayPal.
“We are concerned that eBay compels all sellers to offer as one of the payment options PayPal.”
”eBay claims that they have 5,000,000 members in Australia. This is clearly a dominant position in the market. Our view is that this dominance is being used to further increase the revenue to eBay.
“Acceptance of PayPal as a payment method can double the amount of fees that a seller pays to eBay/PayPal. Accordingly we believe that this demands that the Public Interest be considered in relation to the behaviour of eBay and PayPal in regard to their payment system.
“To this end we request that the provisions of the Payment Systems (Regulation) Act 1998 be enforced. In particular we believe that section 11 (1) of the Act should be utilised to make PayPal a designated payment system because it is in the Public Interest to so do.
“Further we believe that the Reserve Bank should invoke section 18 and set standards for the operation of PayPal as it relates to eBay as this is in the Public Interest. Our view is that this matter is so urgent that section 18 (5) should be used to issue urgent standards.
“The urgency stems from the fact that eBay’s aggressive tactics to make PayPal the defacto payment method has meant that many eBay members (buyers and sellers) who are unable or less able to adapt to this forced change are becoming unviable and are having to cease trading on eBay.
“Such standards should ensure that;
“(a) eBay/PayPal deals equally with all payment systems available on its site,
(b) eBay does not require as a condition of participating in eBay the acceptance of PayPal as a payment method,
(c) eBay/PayPal are prevented from having rules which prohibit the recipients of PayPal payments charging a fee or surcharges for the use of PayPal,
(d) PayPal becomes a signatory to the EFT Code of Conduct.
“We believe that these measures will promote efficiency and competition in the Australian, online, payment system.
“There are very strong Public Interest and Competition issues that we believe compel the Regulation of PayPal as it relates to eBay at least.
“The dominance that eBay has over the on line auction market means that if it uses this strength, and the tactics set out above, to enshrine PayPal as the defacto payment standard it will squash all other payment methods.
“This will remove choice and allow PayPal to set whatever terms and conditions that it chooses. It will also diminish the possibility that a new player could enter the market.
“Failure to be a signatory to the EFT Code of Conduct leaves the users of PayPal open to dangers not associated with PayPal's natural competition, who are all signatories to this Code."
”The terms that eBay enforces on its customers in the use of PayPal means that PayPal has an unfair advantage over its competition.
“Fees can’t be passed on, secure delivery methods must be paid for by the seller of the goods, the competition to PayPal cannot be preferred or promoted by eBay’s customers.
“Given that we have limited means to communicate with like minded people, we wish to advise you that, without meaning any disrespect to you or the Bank, 24 hours after this letter is sent to you we intend to post the letter on the discussion boards at eBay. This is to ensure that people know of this action.”
The letter ends with the standard formal closing. A range of “background information for eBay members” is then provided, and listed in italics:
“The PSB has responsibility for determining the RBA's payments system policy. It must exercise this responsibility in a way that will best contribute to:
"
• controlling risk in the financial system;
• promoting the efficiency of the payments system; and
• promoting competition in the market for payment services, consistent with the overall stability of the financial system.
“The RBA's wide-ranging powers in the payments system are set out in the Payment Systems (Regulation) Act 1998. It may:
"
• designate a particular payment system as being subject to its regulation;
• determine rules for participation in that system, including rules on access for new participants;
• set standards for safety and efficiency for that system (these may deal with issues such as technical requirements, procedures, performance benchmarks and pricing);
• direct participants in a designated payment system to comply with a standard or access regime; and
• arbitrate on disputes in that system over matters relating to access, financial safety, competitiveness and systemic risk.
“The Act also gives the RBA extensive powers to gather information from a payment system.
“The group received advice that a formal request to the PSB will result in the PSB investigating our concerns. Potential outcomes of the investigation include the PSB :
"
• designating PayPal as subject to the RBA's regulations;
• setting standards for the operation of PayPal which draw from the EFT Code of Conduct, or require that PayPal becomes a signatory to the Code;;
• removing eBay's ability to require sellers to offer PayPal as a payment option; and
• removing eBay's ability to restrict sellers from charging a fee or surcharge to buyers who pay by PayPal."
“If a participant in a designated payment system fails to comply with a direction of the RBA, this is a criminal offence against the Commonwealth. The maximum penalty for a body corporate is a fine of $11 million plus $1.1 million for every day it fails to comply with the direction.
“eBay members may recall that in its recent submission to the ACCC, the Australian Securities and Investment Commission ("ASIC") made the following statement:
"ASIC considers that it is highly desirable that PayPal become a signatory to the EFT Code, given the large numbers of retail customers who use eBay, as it would provide an additional desirable layer of consumer protection that is not currently in place."
“ASIC is Australia’s corporate, markets and financial services regulator which contributes to Australia’s economic reputation and wellbeing by ensuring that Australia’s financial markets are fair and transparent, supported by confident and informed investors and consumers.
“Further, eBay members may be interested to know that on 27 April 2006 the RBA released a package of reforms which included:
"…. requiring the Visa system to remove the restrictions on merchants that require them to accept Visa Debit cards if they accept Visa credit cards, and that prohibit merchants from imposing a surcharge on Visa Debit transactions."
“Our view is that the arguments which led to these reforms are analogous to the current situation where eBay requires sellers to offer PayPal and restricts sellers from imposing a surcharge on PayPal transactions.
Further reading :
PSB: Responsibilities and Powers.
Payment Systems (Regulation) Act 1998 - link here.
RBA submission to the ACCC of 2 May, 2008.
ASIC submission to the ACCC of 5 May, 2008.
RBA media release 27 April 2006.
RBA Standard on "Honour all Cards" Rule and "No Surcharge" Rule.
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Once again, what eBay's response will be to this latest action will be very interesting to see. As yet eBay appears to have made no official format responses to any of the previous actions of the eBay rebellion as yet.
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24/7/2008 - From the eBay chat board.....
From the eBay chat board.....
PayPal is Now Required for ALL eBay.com Listings
July 20, 2008
Brewsnews:
It always seems that lately eBay waits until Friday evenings to implement unannounced policies. Yesterday evening, several eBay sellers began receiving a rather odd message when attempting to list items. The warning states:
“Because of your limited transaction history on eBay, you must offer PayPal or a merchant credit card as a payment method for this listing. PayPal is the safer, easier way to receive payments on eBay.
Some payments may be held in your account to ensure smooth transactions. PayPal will release the hold after 21 days without a buyer dispute, claim, chargeback or other action. The hold may be released earlier if either of the following occurs:
Buyer leaves positive Feedback.
3 days after PayPal confirms item delivery.
Today, we even received the message when attempting to list items. Now, I just know the message could not apply to us — we do not have a limited transaction history on eBay since we have been selling on eBay 10+ years and sell thousands of items a month. And the message seems even more odd because the warning appears on our listings that are PayPal Required. The ONLY payment option we offer is PayPal but yet we received the warning message telling us that our listings must offer PayPal.
I spoke with Powerseller Support today at length about this issue. What was explained to me is that eBay.com (ebay U.S.) is going to eventually require ALL sellers to offer PayPal unless they have a merchant account. I inquired as to why no formal announcement was made and never really received a response.
Previously, eBay has stated that they require sellers to accept Paypal if:
1. They sell in certain high risk categories, or;
2. They registered as sellers after January 1, 2007, or;
3. They have limited selling history (infrequent seller).
It seems that eBay has decided to now require ALL sellers to offer a “secure” payment method which is defined only as PayPal or a Merchant Account. Of course, no formal policy announcement has been made by eBay.
When I pushed for more information from the Powerseller rep, he stated that the warning message was simply informational at this time. However, I have received emails from sellers who have informed me that their eBay listings are being blocked unless they agree to accept PayPal.
I was informed by the Powerseller rep that, during this “informational” period, ALL sellers will be seeing the warning message about 2% of the time they attempt to list an item. I asked why I would have received the informational warning message when all of my listings offered only PayPal as a payment option. I was told that this PayPal warning message is also meant to inform every seller about the 21-day hold policy. As I predicted in my last blog post, eBay sellers will soon see an alarming increase in the number of 21-day holds. This is probably eBay’s way of making sure they are laying the groundwork to be able to later say they did inform us.
It sure is rather disconcerting, though, to get the warning message from eBay. It is further evidence that eBay is at war with its sellers. There is absolutely no need for eBay to be so harsh with its good sellers. When eBay communicates their new policies in such an unexpected and negative manner, it sure makes it difficult for sellers to continue to have a positive attitude about selling on eBay.
Why does eBay not just make an announcement that eBay.com is going “PayPal Only” for any seller who does not have a Merchant Account? There is no need to threaten good sellers and there definitely is no need to “warn” sellers who already take PayPal, especially long-term sellers who have outstanding reputations on eBay. I should probably be shocked at eBay’s lack of common (business) sense but, at this point, nothing eBay does surprises me anymore. That is really the most shocking statement of all.
Unannounced policy change, and they're lining people up now with their pop up when you try to list.
Glitch? Apparently not. \
Bob
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20/7/2008 - Kicking the Ebay Bug.
Yeah... I admit it... Ebay bugs me, and I like to kick it.
A friend wrote this about this article - as a comeback to Ebays own spin about it's (non) profitability, and how the writer of this article was able to decipher all the crap from the crapfest.
"Ahhhhhh, the hidden luxuries of using the English language: there are so many ways of twisting the truth without actually telling a big, fat goddamned lie."
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/07/17/more-jeers-than-cheers-for-ebay.aspx
More Jeers Than Cheers for eBay
The good news is that eBay (Nasdaq: EBAY) is growing. The bad news is that it's not growing as quickly as it used to.
The company behind PayPal, Skype, and the namesake online marketplace posted respectable second-quarter results given the iffy economy. Revenue inched 20% higher, to $2.2 billion, from last year. Adjusted earnings rose 25% on a per-share basis, to $0.43 a share. Wall Street was looking for a tweaked non-GAAP profit of just $0.41 a share on a more modest 20% top-line uptick.
Hooray for eBay?
Well, not so fast. Dig into the numbers, particularly the company's flagship marketplace business, and things aren't exactly peachy keen.
Three jeers for eBay
Let's go over a few cheerleading points, if only to unearth the fact that the pom-poms may be a little lighter than you think.
1. Earnings per share are growing faster than revenue, so net margins are improving!
Not so fast, bucko. The key part of that 25% bottom-line growth gauge is that we're talking about "per-share" performance. The company bought back 19 million shares during the quarter and more than that over the past year. That's great for shareholders, but actual non-GAAP net income aped the 20% growth in revenue.
2. Evil defecting power sellers claim that eBay is dying, but it's actually still growing!
Yes, but it's all relative. Growth is decelerating through all of eBay, especially in its bread-and-butter marketplace business. That segment grew by just 13% during the year, and that's padded by the rising popularity of Kijiji and StubHub. Actual GMV (gross merchandise value) sold through eBay's websites during the quarter rose by just 8%, and that figure becomes just a 4% advance if you adjust for foreign currency translations. Listings are up, perhaps peppered by the company's deal with Buy.com to populate the site with retail content, but conversion rates and average selling prices are down.
3. That's all right. That's OK. We don't need the namesake website anyway!
PayPal is a star. Revenue climbed 33% to $602 million on a 35% spurt in payment volume. Most of the growth is naturally coming from outside of the decelerating realm of eBay.com transactions. It's a testament to PayPal's ability to grow its merchant platform even when bumping up against Google's (Nasdaq: GOOG) Checkout.
Skype is growing even faster, with its revenue shooting 51% | |
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