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A vain attempt at decrazification.

Ray Comfort: The little engine that couldn't (he does give it a good crack though, bless him)Nov. 7, 2006

I know I’ve ridiculed Ray Comfort a couple of times in the past, and lest people think that I am merely taking joy in “shooting fish in a barrel,” there is an explanation for this post. One of my new friends has a serious case of the warm and fuzzies for Jesus, and recently handed me one of Ray Comfort’s hilarious booklets, hoping that I would find the man’s vacuous arguments compelling. Unfortunately, I’m going to have to seriously disappoint him. I have explained to my friend that I consider apologists like Ray Comfort to be dishonest scumbags, so I simply refuse to write on them without the appropriate amount of condescension and ridicule.

 

The booklet is entitled “Scientific Facts in the Bible: Amazing truths written thousands of years before they were discovered by man.” What’s incredibly amusing to point out here is that Ray’s line of argument is cautioned against by his fellow fundies over at Answers in Genesis, who’ve made the startling realisation that some arguments are just too fucking stupid even for creationists to use. That, friends, is saying a lot, since these folks have a museum featuring dinosaurs wearing saddles because, according to their interpretation of the Bible, dinosaurs and man coexisted (I wish I was joking). Here’s what AIG have to say against using the “science in the Bible” argument:

 

"We should interpret the Bible as the author originally intended, and as the intended readership would have understood it. Therefore we should be cautious in reading modern science into passages if the original readers would not have seen it. This applies especially to poetic books like Job and Psalms.”

 

Poor Ray – not off to the best of starts are we? On a side note, shouldn’t that be authors or at least a capital A for author, Mr. Crazy Person?

 

Ray opens thusly:

 

“This booklet is about scientific facts in the Bible. I hope you have opened it with a good deal of skepticism.”… “Before we look at these “scientific facts” in the Bible…”

 

You bet your sweet ass I have Ray. Unfortunately for you, I happen to be one of those rare people who can actually apply it. Oh, and the quotation marks surrounding “scientific facts” are Ray’s – no shit. Seriously though, why is it that Ray feels the need to appeal to scientific facts when he seems to be so committed to denying them when the topic of evolution comes up (as we’ll see)?

 

Ray’s first foray into murky waters is decidedly odd:

 

“Do you believe that the following Biblical accounts actually happened?” (he goes on to list absurdities such as Adam & Eve, Noah’s ark, Jonah & the whale etc etc.) “Of course you don’t. To say that you believed such fantastic stories would mean that you have to surrender your intellectual dignity.”

 

Finally Ray, something we can agree on, but wait… everyone hit the deck! Incoming crazy!

 

“The answer is simply those who understand that God has chosen foolish, base, weak, and despised things of the world to confound those who think they are wise.”

 

It’s not often that I’m rendered speechless for long, but that’ll do it. Doesn’t this undermine the whole “scientific facts in the Bible” thing, given that we should disregard logic, and God has the whole universe rigged? Thankfully, Ray then tosses out an analogy to drive his point home (paraphrasing, but you’ll get the gist):

 

A bunch of people throw themselves off an ocean liner for no apparent reason. Everyone else laughs at them. Suddenly, the ship hits an iceberg and sinks, killing all the smug bastards left on board. Who’s laughing now? “Now we see that those who seemed like fools were wise, and those who stayed on the ship, and seemed to be wise, were fools.”

 

I really like this analogy; the clever chaps who jumped off the boat were Christians you see. Unfortunately for Ray, his analogy has several holes you could float an oil tanker through, so let’s do that. The people jumping off the boat only seem wise if it actually hits an iceberg and sinks; if not, they’re just the inconsiderate jerks who fucked up the boat ride for everyone else, because we now have to turn a huge boat around and send out search parties and whatnot. Also, what if you don’t hit that exact iceberg? What if you hit a slightly different iceberg, or a reef, or some rocks, or another ship, or the engines explode, or any other of an infinite number of equally unlikely scenarios? Do you still survive?

 

Since my extended analogy may be a tad more subtle than Ray’s, I’ll explain further (apologies to those who got it – you get extra points). You see – the ocean liner in Ray’s analogy is currently floating along rather nicely, without fear, through the tropics. The probability that we would hit an iceberg is as close to zero as makes no difference. Likewise, the probability that the Christian God exists, as defined in the Bible, is as close to zero as makes no difference, based on a preponderance of the evidence human beings have gathered about the universe we inhabit. Evidence doesn’t even need to be brought to bear however, as simple logic destroys utterly the kind of literalist interpretation of the Bible that Ray argues for. The equally unlikely scenarios I mention are a representation of all the different religions; all mutually exclusive; all supported by exactly the same amount of evidence (none); all as likely to be true as the Easter Bunny myth. The boat ride is obviously our lives (or human progress), and if you don’t think religion is fucking up our boat ride, then you’re not paying attention.

 

Now it’s time for us to jump on board the gravitron of Biblical interpretation; it goes round and round, shit gets turned upside down, and if you stay on it too long, you might throw up. Let’s have a look at Ray’s first scriptural quote revealing of scientific fact; it must be a pretty strong one since he’s leading with it, surely? Um, no…

 

Jeremiah 33:22 “As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured.”

 

Before we reveal Ray’s interpretation of this verse, does anyone have any ideas as to what scientific fact this quote reveals? Didn’t think so.

 

“The Bible claimed there were billions of stars… (at the time) only 1100 were observable.”

 

No it didn’t Ray – you’re reading comprehension is faulty. Even assuming that the host of heaven does means stars, and not fluffy clouds in heaven, or angels, this quote is so vague it could fit any number of stars – thousands, millions, billions, trillions…. More than 1100 are observable though Ray; have a look at the Milky Way - millions of the buggers. Of course, the only reason we know they’re stars is because of science. This vague quote gives us no information, but information can be easily retrofitted after the fact. That’s how prophesy works (and psychics, astrologers etc). Apropos fun approximate fact: for every grain of sand on this planet, there are a million stars in the observable universe. The truth, as revealed by science, is vastly more wondrous than the simplistic bullshit of the world’s religions.

 

I’ll skip the next few ludicrous examples, but I really liked this one:

 

Leviticus 15:13 “And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bath his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.”

 

Again, any ideas? Here’s my interpretation: try not to shit on yourself. If you do, wash yourself for seven days. Ray claims, incredibly, that this quote is revealing of sanitation in modern medicine. How fucking stupid is that? God did not say: “yea, wash your hands before you stick them in someone, for I have made microscopic organisms to kill you (maniacal laughter).” If that’s what the quote means Ray, then why didn’t we change our practices until science made its discoveries? Since God is so concerned with sanitation and health, allow me to rebut Ray with one of my favourite Bible quotes. In Chapter 4 of Ezekial, the Lord goes all Jamie Oliver and tells his people how to make tasty meals, for when you’re stuck in a crappy desert. One of the ingredients is rather interesting:

 

Ezekial 4:12 “And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man”

 

I must admit, I’m starting to come round to this God character. Sadly, the chosen people mustn’t have liked eating their own crap. Four verses later, God caves and lets them eat cow shit instead. Pussy.

 

End of Part 1. Still to come: Evolution denial. A topic high on the “things that really piss me off” list.

Post Comment

Untitled CommentNov. 7, 2006
Another corker, well worth the wait. I love it when you get stuck into Ray. You've knocked him down, now sink the boot in...:)

That last quote you used? Sorry dude, but I'm gonna have to shoot you down there before some fundy takes you to task.

Verse 15 makes it all clear. It seems that Ezekiel was a fussy bugger and goes and has a yap with god after he says the "human poo" thing and wins himself a concession: "Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith."

Cow dung is both reasonably good and common as a fuel and is still used as such today. "Bake it with dung..." means "set fire to that shit over there..."
Posted by plonka

Untitled CommentNov. 8, 2006
"Set fire to that there shit, and cooketh with it, so that thou shalt perish not."

Thanks Ted; once again I must bow to your superior Biblical knowledge, as that does indeed make a lot more sense. It is, however, nowhere near as funny as my interpretation. I would also argue, quite strongly, that my interpretation is vastly less absurd and dishonest than the interpretations Ray Comfort wants us to swallow.

Just for the fun of it, indulge me whilst I play Devil's advocate, as although your interpretation makes more sense, I would never accuse the Bible of making any. How does the "set fire to that shit over there" interpretation fit with verses 13 and 14?

In 13, this Ezekial chap refers to "defiled bread"; in 14 he continues with "neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth." If he's not talking about eating shit, what's he on about? What do those verses have to do with complaints about what fuel to use whilst cooking? Wouldn't an "it smelleth bad, mighty magic dude, can't you grow us some trees to burn or something?" have sufficed?
Posted by Adam

<i>Untitled Comment</i>Nov. 8, 2006
Ah well, now we're talking what's kosha and what's not. "Unclean" food means anything they weren't allowed to eat. Meet cooked in the same kitchen where dairy is prepared, any beast with a "cloven hoof" (pigs etc.) and so the list goes on, including how you cook bread without breaking the rules. If it's not cooked right, then it's "defiled".

Ezekiel is a real stickler for this. At one point god himself offers him a whole bunch of food including pigs and elephants and he says "no thanks, it's all unclean". God slaps him and says something like "Um, Ezekiel, you do realise I'm god don't you?"
Ez: "Oh yes indeedy, that hurt!"
God: "So tell me, how can anything that comes from me be 'unclean'?"
Ez: "Oh yeah, you've got me there..."

Still, I do like your inperetation much better than Ray's...:)

Edited by plonka on Nov. 8, 2006 at 5:46 AM
Posted by plonka

RE: religious rationalizationNov. 9, 2006
This sort of thinking is also very common with muslims, who go on for hours how the quran wrote about embryos thousands of years before mankind knew anything about them - obviously proof of the holy nature of their book.

These sorts of post hoc rationalizations only work on people who essentially want to believe it in the first place.

Basically what they do is take present knowledge, and pretend that some obscure, fuzzy phrase in an ancient book means exactly the same thing as "embryo" or "universe" or "gravity." etc etc

That I can do the same thing with "Thomas the Tank Engine" but they seem incapable of seeing the flaw in their "logic".
Posted by beepbeepitsme

Untitled CommentNov. 9, 2006
My fav is Kabbalah. You know, finding the hidden messages written upside down, back to front, diagonally, etc. in the old testament Hebrew texts.

I like it best because a journo by the name of Drosnin said he found all sorts of stuff using this method, including a message about the assination of Yitzhak Rabin. When he was critisised for it, he issued the following challenge: "When my critics find a message about the assassination of a Prime Minister encrypted in Moby Dick, I will believe them."

Well, not only did Prof. Brendan McKay (an Aussie, which is even better) find messages about Indira Gandhi, JFK and Abe Lincoln in Moby Dick, he also found good old Yitzhak in there as well. Drosnin didn't bother to believe him though and it's still furiously debated. It's so lame it's hilarious...:)
Posted by plonka

Untitled CommentNov. 9, 2006
Beep,

These silly games are monumentally vacuous, but wouldn't be so bad if it was done with some kind of consistency. The circular logic of these arguments soon becomes apparent when evolution enters the fray though, and it goes something like this:

"These good scientific facts prove the Bible is true, but the Bible disproves all these other facts we don't like."

Just dumb; really dumb.

Ted,

I assume this Drosnin guy is the same twit who wrote The Bible Code? I saw a documentary once where they did the same trick with a Vanilla Ice song lyric. I agree Ted - hilariously stupid. Of course, Drosnin moved the goal posts after his Moby Dick challenges were met and exceeded. He asserted that they'd have to find something prophetic in Moby Dick before it happened, as he claims to have done with the Rabin assassination. I don't get it though Drosnin, weren't the codes always there waiting to be discovered in Moby Dick? If we had your magic decoder ring earlier, we could have avoided all these catastrophies. Dumbass.

And Ted, stop hurting me - the Bible means what I want it to mean, and God told them to eat their own shit! Period! LALALALA (not listening) LALALALALA
Posted by Adam

Untitled CommentNov. 9, 2006
The very same. You can do it with just about anything which is what makes it so deliciously comical I reckon.

Sorry dude, but you did ask...:)
Posted by plonka

Eating cowshitNov. 12, 2006
Dammit Ted, you got in earlier and said what I was going to say.

Yes, eating cowshit is funnier.

Very much looking forward to Part 2.
Posted by dikkii

loveSep. 3, 2007
hi there just a message to say its ok u r loved
Posted by Anonymous

Untitled CommentSep. 22, 2007
Thanks anonymous; I love you too man. I'm assuming the love originates from your good self and not some magical fairy that lives in the sky, because I find it difficult to comprehend how something that does not exist is capable of emoting.
Posted by Adam

Cook with it; don't eat itMay. 9, 2008
Cooking on dried-dung fires was a common sight in India when I was there for a few years. Maybe in the Biblical desert, there were no cows to make poop propane, so God in his infinite wisdom told the Hebrews to dry their own turds and burn that. "Urination" is what he said to Israel in 1948, "and Eat Shit Rabin shall be your leader in 50 years." A God who tells his chosen people to systematically exterminate Moslems is not going to turn around and tell his people to eat shit.
Posted by Anonymous

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